>> [GAVEL] >> CHAIR JOHNSON: I WILL CA
LL THE MEETING OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY AND SECURITY POLICY AND FINANCE COMMITTEE TO ORDER. WELCOME BACK TO ANOTHER
FUN YEAR OF INTERESTING TOPICS.
WE HAVE JUST A FEW MINOR CHANGES
THIS YEAR THE RULES; FOR THOSE
INTERESTED; THE RULES WILL NOT CHANGE. THEY WILL STAY THE SAME. WE
DO HAVE A NEW MEMBER THIS YEAR WE HAVE
REPRESENTATIVE UGLEM
REJOINING US. HE WAS ON THIS COMMITTEE
FOUR YEARS AGO?
AND HE-WELCOME TO HAVE
YOU BACK. >>
REPRESENTATIVE UGLEM: THANK YOU MR. CHAIR
>> CHAIR JOHNSON: ALSO THE
VICE CHAIR
IS REPRESENTATIVE LOHMER WE
ALSO HAVE JEREMY HANSEN AS THE COMMITTEE
LEGISLATIVE ASSISTANT.
WE HAVE A NEW RESEARCHER ON OUR SIDE OF
THE AISLE WITH JASON RECTOR AND
WE HAVE A PAIGE EMMETT CAN YOU
INTRODUCE YOURSELF.
>> STAFF:
YES. EMMETT I GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE. I'M
FROM WINONA [INAUDIBILE /
OFF MIC].
>> CHAIR JOHNSON: THANK YOU.
JUST SO YOU ARE AWARE; WHAT I LEARNED UNDER THE PREVIOUS CHAIR
BY TAKING A ROLL CALL PEOPLE ARE USUALLY HERE ON TIME SO WE WILL CONTINUE DOING THAT.
IF WE START ON TIME WE CAN USUALLY GET DONE ON
TIME. JOHNSON >> STAFF: JOHNSON; HERE BACKER
HERE; CONSIDINE HERE DEHN HERE
GRUENHAGEN HERE GROSSELL HERE
HOWE-HAVING LUCERO-O'NEILL
HERE; PINTO; HERE UGLEM HERE;
WARD; HERE
ZERWAS-I CAN >> CHAIR JOHNSON: WE ALSO
HAVE THE
I NEED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE MOTION TO TH
E. AS EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THE MINUTES?
ANY CORRECTIONS?
REPRESENTATIVE DEHN MOVES TO APPROVE
THE MINUTES. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY; AYE. [CHORUS OF AYES.]
OPPOSED; NAY. THE MINUTES
ARE PROVED. TODAY WE WILL BE HAVING
AN OVERVIEW OF
WHAT THE WORKING GROUP ON UNTESTED
RAPE KITS IN A PRESENTATION
BY THEM TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED; HOW
THIS HAPPENED AND WE WILL GET
STARTED THAT. I BELIEVE IT IS
CAROLINE PALMER; IF YOU WANT TO GET THINGS STARTED.. INTRODUCE
YOURSELF AND-
>> TESTIFIER: GOOD MORNING. THANK YOU MR. CHAIR ON CAROLINE PALMER IN
PUBLIC AFFAIRS MINNESOT
A COALITION AGAINST SEXUAL ASSAULT. I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TODAY TO TALK ABOUT RAPE KITS HERE IN MINNESOTA.
I AM GOING TO GIVE YOU A BIT OF AN OVERVIEW OF THE WORKGROUP EFFORTS THAT HAVE BEEN IN PLACE FOR ABOUT THE PAST YEAR AND A HALF ALMOST AND THEN YOU WILL
HEAR FROM A FEW SPEAKERS TO TALK ABOUT
THEIR ROLES IN WORKING WITH A
RAPE KITS AND DEFINITELY WANT TO HEAR
YOUR QUESTIONS. THIS CAN BE A KIND OF COMPLEX TOPIC SOMETIMES SO PLEASE BE SURE TO ASK QUESTIONS. WHEREVER WE CAN
WE CAN HOPEFULLY GIVE YOU
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. SO THE FIRST THING I
WANT TO LET YOU KNOW IS THE WHOLE PROCESS
HAS BEEN
SUPPORTED BY THE OFFICE OF JUSTICE PROGRAMS IN THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY AND
REALLY THE GOAL OF THIS WAS GREAT A
MULTIDISCIPLINARY PROCESS SO THAT ALL OF
THE DIFFERENT PLAYERS IN THE SYSTEM ESSENTIAL YOU COME TOGETHER TO DEAL WITH RAPE KITS
CAN HAVE
A PLACE AT THE TABLE AND WE CAN WORK THROUGH ALL THE ISSUES THAT COME
UP. AGAIN; THIS IS BEEN A VERY COMPLE
X CONVERSATION. WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT ROLES TO PLAY
; DIFFERENT LAWS WE ARE FOLLOWING DIFFERENT OBLIGATIONS SO PULLING ALL THAT TOGETHER IN A COORDINATED MANNER I THINK HAS BEEN A
GREAT TESTAMENT TO HOW WELL EVERYBODY HAS WORKED TOGETHER BECAUSE AS
CAN BE AN AREA WHERE THERE'S A LOT
OF QUESTIONS. SO WE BROUGHT
TOGETHER AS MANY DIFFERENT DISCIPLINES AS WE COULD AND YOU WILL HEAR FROM SOME OF
THEM TODAY. WE DEFINITELY WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT
WE HAVE EVERYBODY WHO EVER COMES
IN CONTACT WITH A KIT AND THAT
STARTS
WITH MEDICAL AND YOU WILL HEAR FROM A SEXUAL ASSAULT NURSE EXAMINER TODAY WHO'S GOING TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A KIT IS COLLECTED ; THE WHOLE PROCESS AND
WHAT HAPPENS ONCE
A KIT IS ACTUALLY DONE AND THE DECISION IS MADE WHETHER TO MOVE ON.
YOU WILL HEAR FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THEIR PERSPECTIVE WHAT HAPPENS THEY PICK UP A
KIT AND WITH A DO WITH A KIT AND
THERE CUSTODY AND WHAT HAPPENS IS THEY MOVE IT FORWARD TO THE DCA OR OTHER
CRIME LABS FOR TESTING AND YOU WILL BE HEARING FROM THE LABORATORY
AS WELL. THEY CAN LET YOU KNOW WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS
TO THAT KIT WHEN IT COMES THROUGH THEIR DOORS. SO WE WILL BE WALKING YOU THROUGH THE PROCESS. BUT ALSO ALONG THE WAY WE HEARD FROM
VICTIM ADVOCACY. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE
IN THE HOSPITAL ROOMS WORKING WITH THE VICTIMS THEY ARE THE ONE HELPING TO KEEP THEM ON TOP OF THE PROCESS. SO THEY
ARE AT THE TABLE AS WELL AS WELL AS CHILD
ADVOCACY CENTERS. THEY ARE THE CENTERS AROUND THE STATE WORK WITH
CHILDREN AND NOT YOUNG ADULTS BUT ADOLESCENTS WHO HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY ABUSED TO DO THE FORENSIC INTERVIEWING
AND DO KIT COLLECTION AS WELL. SO THEY WERE IN
THE CONVERSATION. HOSPITALS OF COURSE HAVE BEEN A BIG PLACE IN
THIS ROLE THE COUNTIES BECAUSE THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR
PAYING FORGETS BEEN IN THE CONVERSATION
AND MULTIPLE STATE AGENCIES AS WELL. WE DID EVERYTHING WE COULD TO BRING TOGETHER AS MANY
DIFFERENT STAKEHOLDERS INTO
THE CONVERSATION. WE HAD FIVE
SUBCOMMITTEES AS WAS OUR SORT OF OVERALL WORKGROUP WE
HAD BUILDING TESTING; TRAINING; USE AN TRIBAL AND I'LL GIVE YOU A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF WHAT EACH GROUP DID AND REALLY
TODAY YOU'LL BE HEARING A LOT BY THE TESTING SIDE OF THINGS BUT THE BILLING GROUP WAS DOING WITH HOW DO
WE COORDINATE VARIOUS ISSUES AROUND THE STATE BECAUSE WE HAVE A COUNTY BY COUNTY
BASIS
SYSTEM. THINGS GET HANDLED DIFFERENTLY IN DIFFERENT COUNTIES SO WHAT CAN WE DO TO MAKE TALK ABOUT CONSISTENCY ACROSS COUNTIES;
SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A SAME
EXPECTATIONS AS THE VICTIM COMES FORWARD AND ASK FOR
SPEED OF THEIR CASE. TESTING; T
HAT IS ACTUALLY
ONE OF COMING INTO THE CRIME OF AND WHAT IS THE PROCESS THAT WE WOULD DO TO GET KITS ACTUALLY INTO THE LAB FOR TESTING I KNOW WE'VE HEARD A LOT
OF CONVERSATION ON A NATIONAL BASIS ABOUT A
KIT BACKLOG AND WE WILL ADDRESS THAT A LITTLE BIT
TODAY. TRAINING;
PART OF THAT IS MAKING SURE WE ACTUALLY HAVE PEOPLE AROUND THE STATE
WHO CAN DO THESE KITS. THE
FORENSIC EXAMINERS.
IN GREATER MINNESOTA THAT'S A REAL CHALLENGE I
WILL SAY LINDA WALTER WHO WILL BE UP HERE TO SOME OF THE TRAINING
HAS DONE A LOT OF WORK TO
GET EMERGENCY ROOMS STAFF
THROUGH BASIC TRAININGS
IN PLACE AS WELL AS TRYING TO OFFER MORE
40 HOUR CERTIFICATION TRAINS
FOR SEXUAL
ASSAULT NURSE EXAMINERS SO WE REALLY NEED MORE PEOPLE ON THE RUN
KNOW HOW TO DO THESE KITS. WITH YOUTH WE WANT TO
MAKE SURE COORDINATE BETWEEN THE CHILD
ADVOCACY CENTERS AND SEXUAL ASSAULT
NURSE EXAMINERS SO
THAT YOUTH HAVE THE ACCESS TO KIT TESTING AS WELL.
THE INTERVIEW PROCESS AND EVERYTHING THAT
SUPPORTS THEM WITH SYSTEM ENGAGEMENT. THEN;
FINALLY; TRIBAL.
WE NEED TO LOOK AT SORT OF THE MULTIJURISDICTIONAL PIECE OF ALL OF THIS.
WE HAVE STATES COMING TOGETHER WE HAVE COUNTIES COME TOGETHER AND WE HAVE TRIBAL GOVERNMENTS. SOMETIMES THERE
ARE ISSUES THAT MAY BE
DIFFERENT ACROSS THOSE DIFFERENT GOVERNMENTS. SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING WE
TALKED ABOUT HAD AN INTEGRATED ELEMENT THAT HAS TO DO WITH RESPONDING TO TRIBAL
GOVERNMENTS; TOO.
THAT BASICALLY TALKED ABOUT THAT SLIDE BUT THIS ONE INTERSECTION OF RESPONSE. MANY OF YOU WHO WERE HERE IN RECENT
YEARS REMEMBER
SOME LEGISLATION THAT PASSED
INTO LAW THAT WAS AN AUDIT AND ESSENTIALLY; IT HAS ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES AROUND THE STATE TO DO A COUNT.
FIGURE OUT
HOW MONEY ON SUBMITTED KITS THEY MIGHT HAVE IT SITTING
IN THEIR POVERTY ROOMS. SO THE NUMBER THAT CAME
OUT WAS 3482. SO WHEN WE HAVE
OUR TESTIFIER FROM THE BCA; SHE WILL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE PROCESS OF HEALING THOSE KITS
BUT I WILL SAY RIGHT NOW; AS WE TALK ABOUT THE LEGISLATION THAT'S GOING TO BE
MOVING FORWARD; WE ARE LOOKING VERY MUCH AT A SORT OF
PERSPECTIVE RESPONSE R
IGHT NOW AND WHAT WE DO FOR THE PRESENT
AND FUTURE TO DEAL WITH THE KIDS WE KNOW ABOUT IN
THE AUDIT WE ARE ALSO LOOKING
TO SOME FEDERAL OPPORTUNITIES IN ORDER
TO FUND A WHOLESALE APPROACH IN
THEIR ESTATE WHICH MANY OTHER STATES HAVE TAKEN UNDER THE
SEXUAL ASSAULT KIT
INITIATIVE AND POTENTIAL FUNDING THAT CAN COME FROM THAT. WE WILL ADDRESS THAT MORE WITH ANY QUESTIONS.
JUST VERY BRIEFLY; AND WE WILL
NOT TALK MUCH ABOUT THE LEGISLATION TODAY; BUT YOU GIVEE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT CAME FROM
THE WORKGROUP INTO THE LEGISLATION IS THE DEFINITIONS OF TYPES OF KITS THAT WE ARE
TALKING ABOUT. THE TIMELINES FOR COLLECTION AND SUBMISSION
;; ENSURING THE RISK MITIGATION BETWEEN THE
DIFFERENT DISCIPLINES; AND
REALLY FIRST AND FOREMOST; WE ARE THINKING ABOUT THE VICTIMS. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE VICTIMS ARE ABLE TO LOCATE AND DETERMINE WHETHER KIT IS
IN APPROXIMATELY CERTAINLY CAN'T GET ALL THE DETAILS ABOUT
THE KIT BUT WHAT THEY CAN DO IS
AT LEAST FIND OUT IF THERE KIT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED FOR TESTING AND WHERE IT MIGHT BE.
I REALLY REALLY WANT TO EMPHASIZE LOCAL COORDINATION IN
THIS CONVERSATION.
ADMIN CAUSE I WERE A FEDERAL
TECHNICAL ASSISTANT PROVIDER FOR
MULTIDISCIPLINARY TEAMS AND WE WORK WITH 13
DIFFERENT MULTIDISCIPLINARY'S SEXUAL ASSAULT TEAMS ALL OVER THE STATE. PART
OF THAT IS DEVELOPING PROTOCOL TO
RESPOND TO ALL DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE
SYSTEM RESPONSE. KITS ARE NO DIFFERENT. IN FACT
THERE'S ALREADY TEAMS AROUND THE STATE WHO BEEN ADDRESSING THIS ISSUE IN CREATING LOCAL PROTOCOLS.
I WI
LL BE TRANSPARENT THERE SOME AREAS START WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO. ONE OF THEM IS ABOUT STORAGE OF KITS AND WHO IS HANDLING KITS; WHERE
DO THEY FIT. WE ARE REALLY PROMOTING AT THIS POINT THE LOCAL COORDINATION IS A BIG PIECE
TO HOW WE WORK THROUGH
THAT QUESTION AND WE ARE HOPING TO HAVE MORE SUPPORT IN THE FUTURE TO GETTING
RESOURCES TO SOME OF THE AGENCIES AROUND THE STATE THAT MAY NEED SOME IN
ORDER TO HANDLE THOSE PARTICULAR KITS THAT COME INTO THEIR POSSESSION.
I JUST WANT TO ALSO KIND OF GIVE THE COMMITTEE A LITTLE BIT OF AN IDEA OF THE LOSS THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH HERE. THIS
IS 609.35 AND THIS IS THE SECTION OF OUR STATUTE THAT HAS TO DO
WITH KITS PAYMENT AND ACCESS
TO EXAM. SO ESSENTIALLY WHAT IT SAYS; IN OUR COUNTY BY COUNTY SYSTEM; THAT THE COUNTY WHERE THE SEXUAL ASSAULT OCCURS IS THE ONE THAT
IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PAYMENT FOR COLLECTING
THE EVIDENCE FROM THE EXAM. SO IF
AN EXAM TAKES PLACE
AND HAS IN HENNEPIN COUNTY THAT THE
SEXUAL ACCOUNT IN
CHISSANO COUNTY CHICAGO COUNTY IS THE COUNTY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PAYMENT.
ANOTHER PIECE IS THE LAW OF THE LAW SAYS THE VICTIM
CAN ONLY BE CONTACTED IF THE VICTIMS HAVE GIVEN PERMISSION
FOR THAT TO
DO SO. SO WE ARE ESSENTIALLY AS A COMMUNITY; AS A STATE; AS A CULTURE SAYING IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT WE WANT TO PAY FOR THESE EXAMS FOR VICTIMS OUT OF OUR
COUNTY BUDGETS WE ARE PREPARED TO DO
THAT
. ANOTHER ABSOLUTELY IMPORTANT PIECE OF VERY CRUCIAL PIECE OF THIS; IS THAT PAYMENT FOR AN EXAM DOES NOT DEPEND ON THE VICTIM
REPORTING THE CRIME TO LAW ENFORCEMENT OR PROSECUTION OR HAVING
ANY ASSISTANCE OF AN INVESTIGATION OR PROSECUTION AND THE REASON WHY THAT IS; IS; AFTER
SEXUAL ASSAULT; WE MAY HAVEE
HEALTH CONSIDERATIONS AS
WELL AS PUBLIC SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS.
SO WE DON'T WANT TO CREATE ANY BARRIER FOR SOMEBODY GOING TO GET HELP IN CASE THEY
FEEL LIKE I'M NOT SURE I WANT TO REPORT BUT
I'M INJURED. SOMETHING HAPPENED TO ME.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY GET TO THE HOSPITAL GET THE CARE THEY NEED AND LINDA WALTER WILL BE WALKING TO WEATHER LOOKS LIKE IN A MOMENT.
THEN THEY CAN DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT TO REPORT
AF
TER THAT. ALL OF THIS REALLY STEMS FROM THE FEDERAL VIOLENCE AGAINST
WOMEN ACT AND THAT ACTUALLY
DOES REQUIRE FOR STATES TO PROVIDE
THESE KITS FREE OF CHARGE TO VICTIMS. IT
ALSO SAYS IT CAN'T REQUIRE
THE PORTS
TO LAW ENFORCEMENT IN OUR STATE IS IN COMPLIANCE.
WE DO RECEIVE A NUMBER OF
FEDERAL FUNDS THAT HELP US IN A GREAT
DEAL TO WITH OUR ANTI-CRIME
WORK WITH
PROSECUTION WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THOSE FUNDS ARE TIED TO OUR COMPLIANCE WITH THESE FORENSIC
EXAM LAWS. AS I MENTIONED EARLIER; THIS ALL ABOUT SUPPORTING VICTIM CHOICE
BUT WE ARE ALSO BALANCING THE PUBLIC SAFETY AND PUBLIC
HEALTH CONCERN AS WE GO
THROUGH THIS. I JUST
WANT TO LIST A COUPLE OF RESOURCES FOR YOU. AS YOU KNOW; THERE'S A BIG NATIONAL CONVERSATION AND WE ARE ONE OF MANY MANY STATES THAT ARE ENGAGING IN IT. ALL STATES ARE
DIFFERENT PLACES. I KNOW YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT SOME OF THE BIG NUMBERS THAT HAVE COME OUT OF
DETROIT; MEMPHIS; 12;000; 15;000; 16;000 KITS.
ALL OF THESE AREAS ARE DIFFERENT.
EVERYBODY IS HANDLING
PROCESS DIFFERENT AND I THINK HERE IN
OUR STATE WE HAVE BEEN ENGAGED IN A VERY
THOUGHTFUL PROCESS THAT'S BRINGING
IN STAKEHOLDERS. WE ARE RECOGNIZING WHERE WE HAVE WORK TO
DO STILLBUT WE ARE ALSO READY TO
MOVE FORWARD AND START TO ORGANIZE OUR PROCESS
;; TOO. SO THE NATIONAL ASSISTANCE
FOR JUSTICE HAS PUT FORTH A NATIONAL BEST PRACTICES FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT KITS WE REFER TO THOSE BUT ALSO TALK ABOUT
WHAT'S WHAT IS HERE IN MINNESOTA SO ARE WE CUSTOMIZING OUR LAW FOR MINNESOTA. THE JOYFUL HEART FOUNDATION AND
THE BACKLOG AT THE NATIONAL
CAMPAIGN [INAUDIBLE] YOU MIGHT
HAVE SEEN SOME INFORMATION
ABOUT THAT. THEN THERE'S A SEXUAL ASSAULT KIT INITIATIVE
RAMP PROCESS THAT
IS UNDERWAY AT THE FEDERAL FUNDING WE ARE POTENTIALLY
LOOKING TO AND ACTUALLY
; DULUTH ALREADY HAS ONE OF THESE GRANTS. YOU WILL BE HEARING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE DULUTH RESPONSE RIGHT NOW AND HOW THAT IS
-HAS HELPED THEM TO MOVE THE THEIR
UNTESTED KITS. SO BEFORE I MOVE FORWARD TO HEAR OUR OTHER SPEAKERS;
I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANSWER
ANY QUESTIONS.
>> CHAIR JOHNSON: THANK YOU FOR
YOUR TESTIMONY. >> TESTIFIER: THANK YOU.
>> CHAIR JOHNSON: IF YOU COULD PLEASE; STATE YOUR NAME.
>> TESTIFIER: MR. CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE MY NAME IS LINDA WALTER AND I'M A
REGISTERED NURSE AND I'M ALSO A SEXUAL ASSAULT NURSE EXAMINER
THAT RECENTLY WE OFTEN
CALL YOURSELF SEEN
NURSES WHICH I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S ACCURATE OR NOT
BUT I WAS SO NERVOUS UNTIL I GOT RIGHT HERE.
[LAUGHING] SORRY. SO
I'VE BEEN A SEXUAL ASSAULT
EXAMINER FOR MORE THAN 11
INJURED TAKEN CARE OF MORE THAN 1100 PATIENTS IN THE TIME I'VE BEEN DOING I
CURRENTLY WORK
FOR TWO SEXUAL SO PROGRAMS IN THE METRO AREA WHERE WE ARE DISPATCH TO THE HOSPITAL WHEN SOMEONE PRESENTS TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM
FOLLOWING A
SEXUAL ASSAULT. THERE'S THREE PROGRAMS IN THE
METRO AREA THAT DO THAT. BUT
WHERE SOMEONE PRESENTS TO THE HOSPITAL
REALLY DEPENDS UPON WHAT KIND
OF CARE THEY WANT TO RECEIVE WHEN THEY DO. IF YOU ARE A VICTIM OF
SEXUAL VIOLENCE
AND YOU GO TO A
METRO HOSPITAL A NURSE IS GOING TO BE CALLED TO SEE YOU. IF YOU ARE LIVING IN DAWSON
MR. MINNESOTA
OR REDWOOD FALLS OR ROSEVILLE MINNESOTA IT'S JUST GOING TO BE WHOEVER
IS AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME IN
THE HOSPITAL
TAKING CARE OF YOU WHETHER THEY'VE HAD THE TRAINING ON HOW TO DO THAT EXAM OR NOT. SO
THE RESPONSE IS VASTLY DIFFERENT ACROSS
THE STATE AND WH
AT LIKE CAROLINE MENTIONED EARLIER; MOST BEEN
WORKING WITH
MIN CASA TO DOING EDUCATION OF STAFF
IN MORE RURAL UPSTATE
MINNESOTA HOSPITALS TO
GIVE THEM THE KNOWLEDGE ON HOW TO DO THAT SEXUAL SOUGHT EXAM BECAUSE THE
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL LIKES TO
DO IT PROCEDURE THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING.
IT JUST NEVER FEELS GOOD. BUT
BASICALLY; WHEN
HE SORRY THE MEDICAL FORENSIC EXAMINER
THE SEXUAL
ASSAULT EXAM IS A TWO-PART EXAM AND IT'S REALLY
MOST IMPORTA
NT PART OF IT MAY BE BECAUSE I'M A NURSE I FEEL THAT WAY; IS THAT IT'S THE MEDICAL CARE WE GIVE TO THOSE PATIENTS WHO COME TO
THE HOSPITAL
FOLLOWING A SEXUAL ASSAULT IN THE SECONDARY PART OF IT
IS FORENSIC COMPONENT WHERE WE ARE COLLECTING SWABS
LOOKING FOR BIOLOGICAL FLUIDS
OR SPECIMENS ON THE
VICTIM'S BODY. I CALL ON SUNDAY
NIGHT AND I THINK THIS KIND O
F IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE KINDS OF PATIENTS THAT WE
SEE. IT'S-I WAS CALLED TO A HOSPITAL IN THE
METRO AREA TO TAKE CARE OF A YOUNG WOMAN WHO HAD BEEN
SEXUALLY ASSAULTED BY A
KNOWN ACQUAINTANCE.. SHE CAME TO
THE HOSPITAL. SHE WAS
REALLY SCARED AND SHE
WAS VERY EMOTIONAL AND IN A LOT OF PAIN AND SHE REALLY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT SHE WANTED.
SHE WAS JUST BROUGHT THERE BY HER MOM BECAUSE SHE KNEW THAT SHE NEEDED
SOME CARE. AS SOON AS SHE CAME TO THE HOSPITAL THEY CALLED
A NURSE AND I HAPPEN TO BE THE NURSE THAT RESPONDED THAT NIGHT
AND SHE HAD NO IDEA WHAT
TO EXPECT SO I WAS ABLE TO GIVE HER KIND OF A RUNDOWN OF ALL THE THINGS
THAT WE
DO AND SO THE FIRST THING I TALKED TO OUR PATIENTS
ABOUT IS GIVING CONSENT CAN CONSENT TO THAT EXAM
BECAUSE SOMETHING CAN BE DONE T
O THEM WITHOUT CONSENT AND I FEEL LIKE CONSENT IS SO IMPORTANT TO THEM. WE DO A BRIEF MEDICAL HISTORY AND THAT WE TAKE THE AN ACCOUNT OF THE
INCIDENT THAT THEY TELL US WHAT WAS DONE TO THEM. REALLY DETAILED
DOCUMENTATION BECAUSE THAT GUIDES OUR EXAMPLE HELPS US DECIDE WHAT KIND OF EVIDENCE WE WANT TO COLLECT.
AFTER THAT; WE DO A HEAD TO TOE EXAM LOOKING FOR ANY INJURIES. WERE DOING A RETAIL AUGMENTATION OF
THOSE INJURIES. WE ARE TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS OF THOSE
INJURIES AND COLLECTING
ANY EVIDENCE ON THE BODY. ONCE WE
DO THAT YOU ARE DOING-I GUESS I SHOULD
START WITH [INAUDIBILE /
OFF MIC]. IT'S A VERY
SMALL BOX. IT CAN BE VERY POWERFUL
FOR VICTIMS [INAUDIBILE /
OFF MIC]. THAT'S THE KIT WE USE HERE IN MINNESOTA. WE GET TO OUR GENITAL EXAM WHETHER THE PATIENT IS MALE OR FEMALE
IS ABOUT 10% OF OUR PATIENTS
ARE MALE. WE ARE GOING TO DO A RETAIL DILL TAILED GENITAL EXAM
AND WE DO IN ENTERING CALLED
A SPECULUM TO LOOK INSIDE OF
A CHINA TO BE ABLE TO COLLECT
SWABS FROM
THE INSIDE. THEN IT'S THE PATIENT HAS
A-HAS BEEN RECTALLY PENETRATED WE ALSO HAVE ANOTHER DEVICE THAT WE USE:
HEINOUS SCOPE WERE LOOKING INSIDE OF
THE [INAUDIBLE] COLLECTING SWABS FROM
THOSE AREAS. AFTER THAT;
WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE WE GIVE MEDICATION
PREVENT
ANY SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED INFECTION BECAUSE THE RISK IS PRETTY HIGH
BEING EXPOSED TO SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED INFECTIONS AND SOME OF THEM IS LESS THAN TREATED CAN CAUSE PERMANENT AND LONG-TERM HEALTH CONSEQUENCES. SO MY PATIENT
ON SUNDAY NIGHT; SHE DIDN'T REALLY EVEN WANT ME TO TALK TO HER. SHE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT
SHE NEEDED. JUST FOR THAT
WHOLE PROCESS
OF THE EXPLANATORY JUST LIKE I DID HERE; WITH THE EXAM
AND TALES; SHE WAS ABLE TO
FINALLY DECIDE THAT WOULD BE OKAY FOR ME TO TALK TO HER
AND THEN WITH A LITTLE BIT OF MORE EDUCATION AND A LITTLE BIT OF
GENTLE ENCOURAGEMENT AND EXPANDING HER OPTIONS SHE WAS ABLE TO DECIDE; YES; SHE WANTED TO DO THE EXAM AND LOOK FOR INJURIES. SHE HAD A LOT OF
GENITAL TRAUMA THAT I WAS ABLE TO DOCUMENT BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN TO
HER WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE AND WHAT THAT MEANS FOR HER FUTURE.
THEN; TALK TO ABOUT SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED INFECTIONS
AND MEDICATION. SHE WAS KIND OF AT A
HIGH RISK FOR ACQUIRING HIV FROM THAT SEXUAL ASSAUL
T SO ABLE TO DISCUSS THAT WITH HER AND GET HER
THOSE MEDICATIONS. THEN; TALK TO HER ABOUT REPORTING. SHE WAS SOMEONE
WHO'S NOT VERY INTERESTED IN
REPORTING BECAUSE
SHE'S FROM A COMMUNITY THAT DOESN'T HAVE ALWAYS HAVE A GREAT RELATIONSHIP WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT. WE WERE ABLE TO
EXPLAIN THAT IF YOU WANT TO REPORT TO LAW ENFORCEMENT WE CAN CALL THEM TO COME TO THE HOSPITAL RIGHT NOW AND TAKE THAT REPORT
OR YOU CAN GO HOME AND GET
SOME SLEEP AND BECAUSE WE COLLECTED
THIS EVIDENCE TIME IS OF THE EFFORT EVIDENCE WITH THE EVIDENCE OF COLLECTION THAT YOU CAN GO HOME AND SLEEP AND THEN WE
WILL [INAUDIBLE] TO MAKE A REPORT TO LON
PERSON MAYBE THE NEXT DAY EVEN A WEEK FROM OUT MAYBE EVEN A YEAR FROM THE BECAUSE WE COLLECTED THIS EVIDENCE
IT KEEPS YOUR OPTIONS OPEN. SO
SHE DECIDED THAT SHE WASN'T READY TO TALK TO
LAW ENFORCEMENT BUT THEN WE HAD
PRINTED THAT IDEA IN
HER HEAD THAT
WE COULD SHE COULD BE SAFE TO DO THAT. IN
THE FUTURE. >> CHAIR JOHNSON: IS WHAT
I BELIEVE REPRESENTATIVE HOWE IS
A QUESTION. >>
REPRESENTATIVE HOWE: THANK YOU
MR. TRIPLETT WHEN YOU OBTAIN A RELEASE
IS THERE A DIFFERENT PROCESS WHEN YOU'RE DOING WITH MINORS
AS ADULTS? HOW DOES THAT WORK WHEN YOU'RE
DOING WITH MINORS IN
THAT RESPECT?
>> TESTIFIER: MR. CHAIR AND
REPRESENTATIVE HOWE; THE WAY THAT WORKS IS THAT
WE CONSIDER THAT MINORS ARE ABLE TO
GET CONSENT THROUGH THEIR CARE
UNDER THAT STATUTE THAT
TALKS ABOUT THAT BEING ABLE TO
HAVE SEXUAL HEALTH CARE AND
MENTAL HEALTH AND
CHEMICAL HEALTHCARE AND SO THAT'S HOW WE DO THAT
GENERALLY. GENERALLY MINORS HAVE THEIR
PARENTS THERE IF THEY WANT TO GIVE CONSENT BUT WE WOULD ALWAYS HAVE THE PATIENT GIVE. SUBJECT THAT I ANSWER A QUESTION?
>> REPRESENTATIVE HOWE: THANK
YOU MISTER. SOMETIMES I'M HERE THINKING SOMETIMES WITH ME LOOKING AT
THE PERPETRATOR MAY BE A
PARENT OR GUARDIAN SOME JUST WONDERING HOW
THAT IS-HOW THAT IS DONE TO MAYBE OBTAIN
A RELEASE.. I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT THE LEGAL STATUS OF ALL
THAT IS.
I'M SURE THERE'S OTHER PEOPLE IN HERE THAT HAVE DEALT WITH THIS A LOT MORE THAN I HAVE
THAT WOULD UNDERSTAND IT. I GUESS I JUST DON'T KNOW IF THAT
CARRIES ANY WEIGHT OR HOW THAT
IS DONE
? MAYBE SOMEBODY CAN HELP ME
WITH THAT? >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
MS. WALTER CAN YOU ANSWER THAT?
>> TESTIFIER: MR.
CHAIRMAN-I'M SORRY THIS IS SO OUT OF MY
NORMAL THING. YES. IN THAT WE
-I MEAN IT DOESN'T HAPPEN
VERY OFTEN ARE
CONCERNED THAT THE PARENT
OR GUARDIAN THAT'S WITH A MINOR IS THE PERPETRATOR BUT
CERTAINLY BECAUSE THE MINOR IS ABLE TO GIVE CONSENT TO THE EXAM THAT HELPS US SORT OF
FUN [INAUDIBLE] TO MAKE SURE WERE ACTING IN THE BEST INTEREST OF
THAT MINOR. CAROLINE SAYS
WE ALSO-I CAN'T BELIEVE I
FORGOT THIS-NURSES AS WELL
WE WILL BE THE
REPORTER SO IF THERE'S ANY OF THAT KIND OF CONCERN WE WOULD ALWAYS MAKE THAT MANDATED REPORT WHETHER IT IS A MINOR OR VULNERABLE ADULT.
>> CHAIR JOHNSON: THANK YOU.
>> TESTIFIER: THE LAST THING I WAS GOING TO ADD IS BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T THESE MANY DIFFERENT
VARIED OPTIONS
OF REPORTING; WHAT HAPPENS WHEN
THE PATIENT IS LEAVING THE HOSPITAL
SO AN EXAM CAN TAKE ANYWHERE 2-4 HOURS AND WE HAVE A LOT OF PAPERWORK TO DO. BUT WHAT WE DO
WITH THE ACTUAL KIT ITSELF
IS THAT IN
THE HOSPITAL IF THERE ARE REPORTED THEN WE CALL
LAW ENFORCEMENT TO PICK THOSE
KIDS UP. IF YOU HAVE NOT MADE
A REPORT AND THEY ARE THAT
RESTRICTED KIT USUALLY THE
HOSPITALS WILL
STORE THEM FOR A SPECIFIC AMOUNT
OF TIME. THAT VARIES WIDELY ACROSS THE
METRO AREA. IT'S HOSPITAL-BASED
AND THEN IT'S VERY DIFFERENT ACROSS
THE WHOLE
STATE AS WELL. SO THERE'S REALLY NO STANDARDIZATION HOW LONG THOSE KIDS ARE LEFT ARE KEPT AND WE
KNOW THAT USUALLY IS SOMEBODY'S GOING TO MAKE A REPORT THEY DO IT
RATHER QUICKLY; IN THE FIRST COUPLE OF WEEKS; BUT WE KNOW ALSO THAT A YEAR IS
AN IMPORTANTAT THE UNIVERSITY OF THE SEXUAL ASSAULT
THEY MAY [INAUDIBLE] I'VE HEARD OF PATIENTS HAVE REPORTED EVEN LATER THAN THAT.
SO THAT'S KIND OF
HOW WE WANT TO KEEP IT FOR AS LONG AS WE POSSIBLY CAN TO KEEP THOSE VICTIMS OPTIONS OPEN.
JUST TO GIVE A
LITTLE CONTEXT OF WHAT WE ARE TALKING BUT I WORK FOR THESE TWO DIFFERENT MAIN PROBLEMS IN THE METRO AREA AND ONE OF THEM IS IN HENNEPIN COUNTY LAST YEAR WE SAW OVER 1000 PATIENTS IN HENNEPIN COUNTY FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT IN
THE METRO OR THE NORTH METRO
PROGRAM SAW OVER 600 PATIENTS
AND IN RAMSEY AND
WASHINGTON COUNTY THE OTHER PROGRAM THAT
I WORK FOR WE SAW CLOSE TO 400 PATIENTS. SO PRETTY LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING TO THE HOSPITAL IN THE
METRO AREA. >> CHAIR JOHNSON: THANK YOU.
REPRESENTATIVE O'NEILL I BELIEVE YOU A QUESTION?
>> REPRESENTATIVE O'NEILL: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TESTAMENT
I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH YOU ON THE WORKING
GROUP AND DELVING IN THIS REALLY
THE FIRST TIME I OPEN UP
A KIT I THINK YOU HAVE THEM AT THE TABLE BEFORE BUT TO SEE THERE ARE 12 DIFFERENT SETS OF SWABS
AND THE VERY EXTENSIVE INTERVIEW; IT'S
REALLY MIND-BOGGLING. I THINK WE
NEED TO I
F YOU HAVEN'T OPEN A CASE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO DO THAT AND TO LOOK AT WHAT IT'S
LABELED AS. TO SEE REALLY A
POWERFUL STATEMENT
AS TO HOW THOROUGH AND ACTUALLY KIND
OF INVASIVE IN A SENSE
THAT THE EXAM IS. WHAT A WOMAN HAS TO GO THROUGH. SHE'S BEEN VICTIMIZED IN AN JUST TO GO THROUGH THAT
VERY EXTENSIVE EXAM
THAT AGAIN JUST EMPHASIZES
HOW IMPORTANT THAT WE TREAT ALL THE KIDS
WITH RESPECT THE PERSON WITH RESPECT TO THE PROCESS WITH RESPECT BECAUSE SHE'S BEEN THROUGH
SO MUCH.
ALSO; I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND FOR THE COMMITTEE; TOO; TO LOOK AT IF THERE'S 12 DIFFERENT SWABS WHICH MEANS THAT 12 DIFFERENT
DNA SAMPLES THEY HAVE TO RUN
12 DIFFERENT COME IN ONCE IT GETS TO THE BCA AND THE BCA CAN TALK ABOUT THIS; TOO; BUT ONCE THEY
THE BCA COLLECTS THAT; SO THERE'S 12 DIFFERENT DNA SAMPLES THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH NOT JUST ONE
. IT IS SORT OF SIMPLISTIC TO THINK THAT A KIT MIGHT HAVE EIGHT
SWAP BUT EXACTLY 12 DIFFERENT SWABS DEPENDING ON WHAT'S HAPPENED TO HER. THEN THERE'S ALSO THE
WHOLE OTHER BIT OF EVIDENCE THAT MIGHT BE COLLECTED. MAYBE IT'S BETTING; MAYBE CLOTHING MAY BE OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE TO HAVE SAMPLES
DONE AND TAKEN INTO PUT THE FULLER PICTURE THERE. NOT ONLY KEEPING THE KIT FOR
WHATEVER DETERMINATION THAT
WE DECIDE LEGISLATIVE BECAUSE IT REALLY IS IN A DETERMINATION IN LAW RIGHT NOW; HOW LONG TO KEEP BECKETT; BUT ALSO ALL THE OTHER EVIDENCE.
HER CLOTHING.
THE BEDDING AND OTHER THINGS SHE MAY HAVE COME IN CONTACT WITH. SO JUST
SO WE ALL HAVE A BIGGER PICTURE
OF WHAT WERE REALLY TALKING ABOUT AND I THINK OPENING
THE KIDS WAS EYE-OPENING TO ME
TO REALIZE THERE'S 12 SWABS
IN THERE. SO THAT'S A LOT
OF EVIDENCE JUST IN THA
T SMALL KIT. I APPRECIATE YOU COMING IN WORKING WITH US AND ALL THAT
YOU DO TO
PROTECT WOMEN AND TO STAND UP
FOR THEM. I THINK OF YOUR TESTIMONY TODAY.
>> CHAIR JOHNSON:
REPRESENTATIVE BECKER-FINN >> REPRESENTATIVE BECKER-FINN: THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. TO
CHINA JUMPOFF
REPRESENTATIVE O'NEILL; I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT
TO EMPHASIZE THE GRAVITY
AND HOW INVASIVE THIS CAN BE
AN ESPECIALLY THE WAY THAT IT CAN
POTENTIALLY EXACERBATE THE TRAUMA THAT THE PERSON HAS
ALREADY EXPERIENCED
AND KIND OF PUTTING THAT
TOGETHER WITH WHITE PEOPLE MAYBE DON'T REPORT
OR DON'T CHOOSE
NOT TO GO IN AND HAVE THE ENTIRE EXAM DONE. IT REALLY IS A GREAT
UNDERTAKING FOR SOMEONE AND;
TO THE-I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT
THE ACCESS TO
FULLY TRAINED NURSES AND DOCTORS IN
RURAL MINNESOTA AND I AM GUESSING NOT ALL OF THOSEFACILITIES ALSO
HAVE THE EQUIPMENT THAT YOU
-OR THE EXPERTISE AND USING THE EQUIPMENT;
WHICH THEN;; IN ADDITION
TO MAKING MAYBE THE EVIDENCE NOT WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE ON A PROSECUTOR END;
BUT THEN THE LACK OF TRAINING
TO THEN EXACERBATE THE TRAU
MA EVEN FURTHER IF IT'S NOT SOMEONE WHO IS TRAINED IN
HOW TO DEAL WITH THE SITUATION. YOU DID A REALLY GREAT JOB
OF EXPLAINING; A SPECIFIC CASE AND HOW
YOUR EXPERTISE AND BACKGROUND HELPE
D YOU HELP THAT WOMAN TO GET TO
A PLACE THAT WAS MORE HELPFUL
FOR HER AND IF WE DON'T HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE TRAINED
EVERY PERSON IN EVERY WOMAN IN MINNESOTA WHO EXPENSES
THIS SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO THE SAME LEVEL
OF CARE AND THIS ALSO TIES IN WITH THE OTHER ISSUE WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THE LAST
YEAR
WITH VIOLENCE TO NATIVE WOMEN AND A LOT OF THOSE WOMEN IN A ROW RURAL
AREAS; TO MY SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT ISSUE SO I THOUGHT IT WAS
REALLY IMPORTANT TO POINT THOSE
THINGS OUT AND WHAT YOU MENTIONED ALREADY.
THANK YOU. >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
THANK YOU FOR
COMING TODAY. I DON'T SEE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.
I ALSO WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR THE WORK YOU DO AT
THE INVESTIGATIVE NUMBER OF SEXUAL
ASSAULT CASES IN THE BEST CASE I'VE BEEN ABLE TO
PUT TOGETHER WAS FROM
THE WORK THAT THE EXAMINING NURSES HAVE
DONE; TALKING TO THE VICTIMS; WORKING
WITH
THEM;. GENERALLY; THE NURSES OF THE FIRST ONES TO SEE
THESE VICTIMS. HOW YOU
HANDLE THEM MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN
THE INVESTIGATION
OF THE PERPETRATORS BEHIND BARS. SO;
THANK YOU.
>> TESTIFIER: I WANT TO THANK ALL OF YOU AND MR. CHAIR
AS WELL. I DO THE WORK ON THE
GROUND BUT I DON'T HAVE THE POWER TO MAKE CHANGES
AT A STATEWIDE LEVEL THAT WILL AFFECT
ALL VICTIMS AND I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU TAKING
THE TIME TO LISTEN TO ME TALK ABOUT THIS.
>> CHAIR JOHNSON: THAT'S WHY WE ARE HERE. NEXT; BILL HUDSON.
>> TESTIFIER: GOOD MORNING MR.
CHAIR AND
REPRESENTATIVE MY NAME IS BILL HUDSON
NEW EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE
MINNESOTA SHERIFFS ASSOCIATION I AM A RETARDED SHERIFF IN
WASHINGTON COUNTY AND SPENT 33 YEARS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT
; MANY OF THOSE YEARS AS
AN INVESTIGATOR
PROBABLY 15 YEARS AS AN INVESTIGATOR.
SO I AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENT; MR. CHAIR; WHAT AN UNBELIEVABLE JOB
THAT THE SAME NURSES DO AND NURSES DO TO HELP MAKE THE CASE.
MY ROLE IS THAT TO GIVE A QUICK
OVERVIEW OF WHAT HAPPENS TO
THE KITS
AS WE HAVE AND AS THE INVESTIGATION MOVES FORWARD AND HOW IT ENDS UP
IN THE HANDS OF THE BCA BUT I WILL
ALSO TOUCH A LITTLE BIT ON
WAS ORIGINALLY PROVIDED TO US BY LINDA HERE;
THE NURSE.
THE KITS GET TO THE HOSPITALS IN A COUPLE DIFFERENT
WAYS. FIRST; SOME HOSPITALS MAY ALREADY HAVE THE KIDS. OR; LAW
ENFORCEMENT CONTACTED AND I CAN
REFERENCE THIS FROM BEING IN THE METRO INVESTIGATOR AND SHERIFF'S WE WOULD BRING
THE KIDS
BECAUSE WE HAVE THE PERSONNEL WE
WOULD HAVE BE ABLE TO BRING
THE KIT IMMEDIATELY TO THE HOSPITAL. THAT KID
IS SEALED.
ONCE THE KIT IS HANDED OVER TO
THE NURSES THE SAME NURSES; IT
IS UNSEALED. LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH A KIT AT
THAT
MOMENT. ANY CEILING ANY COLLECTION ANY OF THAT KIND
OF STUFF
IS ALL DONE BY THE SAME NURSE OR HOSPITAL STAFF. TO
YOUR POINT
REPRESENTATIVE O'NEILL ABOUT CLOTHING AND BEDDING; THAT IS ALSO WHAT LAW
ENFORCEMENT PARTICIPATES
IN THAT WITH REGARD TO THE KIT; ABSOLUTELY; WE DO NOT DO ANYTHING TO DO
WITH THAT. ANY AND ALL EVIDENCE
GATHERED BY THE
HOSPITAL PERSONNEL IS SIGNED OVER TO
LAW ENFORCEMENT SO THERE'S A VERY STRICT CHAIN
OF CUSTODY THAT OCCURS IT
JUST NOT HERE YOU GO. THE
SIGNATURES HAVE-SOMETIMES THERE'S MULTIPLE FORM
SIGNED BETWEEN
THE HOSPITAL AND LAW ENFORCEMENT TO
MAKE SURE THAT CHAIN OF CUSTODY
IS INTACT. FOR THOSE REPORTED CASES; FOR THOSE
CASES WHERE LAW ENFORCEMENT IS
ACTIVELY INVESTIGATING; THERE IS ALSO RELEASES OF INFORMATION ANY TO
BE SIGNED. SOMETIMES LAW ENFORCEMENT PROVIDES THAT RELEASE TO THE HOSPITAL BUT
MORE OFTEN ESPECIALLY WITHIN
THE METRO THEY HAVE THEIR OWN RELEASE OF INFORMATION THAT WILL BE GIVEN TO
THE VICTIM AND THEN TURNED OVER TO
LAW ENFORCEMENT. LAW
ENFORCEMENT THEN TAKES THAT EVIDENCE; TAKES
THE KIT; BRINGS IT BACK
TO THEIR PROSPECTIVE LAW
ENFORCEMENT AGENCY AND THEN
THAT KIT IS INTRODUCED
INTO EVIDENCE. AGAIN; A
VERY STRICT CHAIN OF
CUSTODY OCCURS. SO THE LAW
ENFORCEMENT OFFICER IS THE
UNIFORM PERSONNEL OR THE INVESTIGATIVE PERSONNEL; THEY INTRODUCE THAT INTO
THEIR EVIDENCE
ROOM. AT WHICH POINT; IT IS LOGGED IN AND KEPT IN THE EVIDENCE ROOM FOR A PERIOD OF TIME. THAT PERIOD OF TIME CAN BE 12 HOURS 24 HOURS; FIVE;
SIX DAYS BEFORE THEN
IT IS TAKEN OUT OF
EVIDENCE AGAIN; WITH CHAIN OF CUSTODY; AND BROUGHT DOWN TO THE
MINNESOTA BUREAU OF CRIMINAL APPREHENSION ALL THE WHILE; THAT IS OCCURRING;
OBVIOUSLY THE
INVESTIGATIVE PROCESS IS TAKING PLACE. ALONG
THE WAY
NOW THE KATE IS NOW BROUGHT TO THE BCA AND SAID HERE'S YOUR KIDS.
THERE'S A VERY
SIGNIFICANT PROCESS THAT NEEDS TO OCCUR AS WELL.
THERE'S MULTIPLE CHAIN OF CUSTODY FORMS THAT NEED TO BE SIGNED. THERE IS ALSO SIGNIFICANT
DATA THAT NEEDS TO BE RELAYED THROUGH A
MULTIPAGE FORM TO
THE BCA IN THE EVIDENCE ERROR. AGAIN; IT'S NOT SORT OF TURNED OVER AND SAID
; HERE; TEST IT. THERE'S LOTS OF INVESTIGATIVE DATA; LOTS OF DATA COLLECTED BY THE HOSPITAL LOTS OF DATA COLLECTED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS THAT NEED TO GO ON TO THAT FORM TO ASSIST BCA IN THEIR ANALYSIS OF
THAT DATA. THIS CAN OCCUR
-PERSPECTIVE THAT I GIVE YOU IS THE PERSPECTIVE
AS A INVESTIGATOR IN THE METRO
AREA. OBVIOUSLY; IT CHANGES A
S ALREADY MADE REFERENCE TO BY BOTH PREVIOUS SPEAKERS ABOUT THE ISSUES
I DID NOT ISSUES HOW DIFFERENT THEY CAN BE
THROUGHOUT THE
STATE. MEANING; SOMETIMES
THE HOSPITALS WILL MAINTAIN THE EVIDENCE FOR A PERIOD OF TIME BEFORE
LAW ENFORCEMENT COMES IN AND
COLLECTS IT AGAIN CHAIN OF
CUSTODY ISSUE ALONG THE WAY.
SO GIVE YOU A
QUICK OVERVIEW AND PERSPECTIVE AS TO WHAT HAPPENS WITHIN THE METRO AREA WITH REGARDS TO THIS SEXUAL
ASSAULT KITS. >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
REPRESENTATIVE ZERWAS
>> REPRESENTATIVE ZERWAS: THANK YOU FOR THE OVER YOU
MR. HUDSON. I'M WONDERING IF YOU
COULD SPEAK TO LAW ENFORCEMENT
IN MAINTAINING AND RETAINING
THE KITS THAT PERHAPS THE
SEXUAL CONTACT ISN'T DISPUTED
? YOU INTERVIE
W AND SUSPECT OR INDIVIDUAL AND HE SAYS THE
SEXUAL CONTACT WAS CONSENSUAL OR
A CASE WHERE AN
INDIVIDUAL DECIDES NOT TO MOVE FORWARD
WITH CHARGES EXCEPTIONALLY
CLEAR-CUT CASE TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF PERSPECTIVE; WHEN I WORKED FOR FIVE YEARS AT THE
ANOKA COUNTY SHERIFF'S
CRIME LAB WE HAD OVER THE
YEARS ACCUMULATED SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS
OF SEXUAL ASSAULT KITS
THAT; FOR ONE INVESTIGATIVE REASON
OR ANOTHER;
WERE DEEMED OF NO EVIDENTIARY VALUE OR DIDN'T
NEED TO MOVE FORWARD. SO CAN YOU
WALK THROUGH-WHEN YOU ARE SHERIFF OF WASHINGTON COUNTY;
THAT EXPENSE AND HOW THOSE KITS
WERE HANDLED? WHEN THE CHILD IS ONE OF THE THINGS I'M TRYING TO ADDRESSES WE TALK ABOUT
3000 KITS IN THE
INVENTORY THAT WERE NOT TESTED. I THINK
THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS GIVE A
COMPLETE PICTURE WHERE THERE ARE
NOT MOST LIKELY
3000 KITS THAT JUST DID NOT GET SENT IN
OR FINANCIALLY WE COULD NOT AFFORD
TO TEST OR-BUT A
SIGNIFICANT PORTION WERE AT LEAST
WHEN I WAS THERE WITH ANOKA COUNTY;
SIGNIFICANT PORTION
SEXUAL ASSAULT KITS THAT WERE
NOT FORWARDED TO THE BUREAU OF
CRIMINAL APPREHENSION
FOR TESTING WERE DONE SO
DELIBERATELY OUT OF
INVESTIGATIVE PROCESS BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHERE
INVESTIGATION LED SOME WONDERING IF
YOU CAN KIND OF TALK TO THOSE ISSUES A
LITTLE BIT?
>> TESTIFIER: THAT'S KIND OF
A MULTI-
FACETED QUESTION WITH LOTS OF LITTLE TWISTS AND TURNS
IN THERE.
NOT EVERY INVESTIGATION IS LIKE THE ONE BEFORE. THERE'S ALWAYS SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENING IN THE
INVESTIGATIVE PROCESS. HOWEVER; IT IS EVIDENCE
. IN THE INVESTIGATOR PROCESS IF THE TIP WAS NOT FORWARDED TO
THE BCA FOR ANALYSIS AND THE VICTIM; HE OR SHE CHANGE THEIR MIND
AS TO WHETHER
OR NOT IT WOULD LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE
INVESTIGATION OBVIOUSLY THAT'S GOING TO HAVE AN EFFECT ON
THE INVESTIGATION. SO THERE ARE MULTIPLE THINGS THAT CAN
;; AND I THIN
K YOU DESCRIBED IT IN YOUR QUESTION; MULTIPLE THINGS THAT CAN OCCUR WERE SOME KITS MAY NOT BE BROUGHT FORWARD.
MIKE'S PARENTS IN
WASHINGTON COUNTY AS YOU REFER TO; EVIDENCE IS EVIDENCE.
REGARDLESS IT NEEDS TO BE TREATED AS SUCH. NOW THERE IS GOING TO BE CERTAIN FACETS
I THINK SHOULD DESCRIBE
WHETHER OR NOT IT MOVES FORWARD BUT THE REALITY IS THE SEXUAL ASSAULT KITS ARE VERY VERY IMPORTANT
PIECE OF EVIDENCE AND NEEDED TO BE TREATED AS SUCH.
>> CHAIR JOHNSON:
REPRESENTATIVE O'NEILL >>> REPRESENTATIVE O'NEILL:
THANK YOU
REPRESENTATIVE ZERWAS. IT SOMETHING I
WOULD HOPING WE WOULD HAVING A CONVERSATION; AND I'M SURE WHEN THE BCA COMES THEY CAN EXPLAIN
OF THE KITS THAT ARE STILL
YET UNTESTED WHAT ARE THE REASONS BEHIND THAT. A LOT OF IT HAS TO
DO WITH JUST DOESN'T HAVE
EVIDENTIARY VALUE OR THESE
CASES ENCLOSEDOR THE WOMAN DECIDES NOT TO PURSUE
CHARGES AND CONTINUE THE CASE. BUT THEY ARE GOING TO EXPAND THAT AS WELL I BELIEVE WHEN THEY COME UP BUT IN
THE LEGISLATION THAT WE ARE JUST GOING
TO REFERENCE; WE DID
TALK ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT THERE WAS EVIDENTIARY VALUE
TO MOVING THE KID FORWARD SO WE DON'T INUNDATE
THE BCA. SOMETHING IN THE WORKING GROUP I FELT WAS IMPORTANT; MEMBERS; TO
UNDERSTAND THAT AT THE TIME WE STARTED THE WORKING GROUP; THE BCA COULD HANDLE ABOUT 1000 KITS PER YEAR. SO IF WE
HAVE 3400--WELL WE DON'T HAVE MANY UNTESTED ANYMORE. THE IMPORTANT ONES HAVE BEEN TESTED BUT
SAY IF WE SENT HIM 3000 AT
ONE TIME YOU
WOULD REALLY-IIT WOULD GIVE JUSTICE TO THE WOMEN THAT
ARE WAITING
AND HAVE AN OPEN AND READY CASE. SO WE NEED TO BE
VERY MINDFUL
OF THAT IN THE CONVERSATION MOVING FORWARD. IN THE LEGISLATION WE WE TALK ABOUT AT A LATER TIME
VERY CLEARLY
SPELLED OUT THAT KID HAS TO HAVE EVIDENTIARY VALUE TO MOVE FORWARD
. YOU KNOW; IF IT'S A CONSENT
-YOU KNOW WHO THE MAN IS AND THERE'S A
CONSENT ISSUE THAT DOESN'T HAVE VALUE TO MOVE FORWARD;
THE KIDS IN A HOLE MIGHT BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE THE VIOLENCE OF THE ACT THE
ACTUAL DNA PROFILE
IS NOT A VALUE. SO JUST TO
CLARIFY THAT. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY.
>> CHAIR JOHNSON: THANK YOU
MR. HUDSON.
>> TESTIFIER: THANK YOU
MR. CHAIR BEECHER
JOHNSON SUPERINTENDENT DREW EVANS.
IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE DEPUTY
SUPERINTENDENT CATHERINE NEWSON AT THE SAME TIME. GO AHEAD.
>> TESTIFIER: MR. CHAIR MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE MY NAME IS DREW EVAN SUPERINTENDENT OF THE BUREAU OF CRIMINAL APPREHENSION AS NOTED
WITH ME DEPUTY
SUPERINTENDENT CATHERINE KNUTSON AND SHE CAN WALK YOU THROUGH THE PIECES
RELATE
D TO ELABORATE UP I JUST THOUGHT I WOULD STOP UP TO COMMENT ON THIS LAST PIECE AS WELL. WHEN IT COMES TO THE UNTESTED KIDS IN THE STATE OF
MINNESOTA KATHY WILL MAYBE
TOUCH BRIEFLY ON PROGRAM WE ARE
WORKING ON IS A GRANT WITH
THE DULUTH
LEASE APARTMENT WORKING THROUGH SOME OF THESE KIDS BUT I JUST WANT TO AFFIRM IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR US TO
TAKE IN THE 3000 OR SO
REMAINING KIDS IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA. THE KITS THAT
ARE REMAINING THAT ARE STILL WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT I JUST WANT TO NOTE HAVE A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT REASONS WHY THEY BEEN UNTESTED FROM
THE REASONING WOULD NOT BE VALUABLE TO THE CASE FROM
A PROSECUTORIAL STANDPOINT. THE VICTIM MAY BE UNCOOPERATIVE IN A PARTICULAR INVESTIGATION. MAY HAVE BEEN ADJUDICATED. THE CASE IS ALREADY GONE THROUGH THE LEGAL SYSTEM AND SO THAT HAS BEEN COMPLETED SO THEY DO NOT
SUBMIT THAT. WE HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH A NUMBER OF AGENCIES AROUND MINNESOTA WHEN THE ORIGINAL SURVEY WENT OUT
WITH
KITS THAT WE BELIEVE SHOULD BE
POTENTIALLY EXAMINED BY THOSE AGENCY AND WE BEEN
IN DIRECT COMMUNICATION WITH A NUMBER OF AGENCIES AROUND THE STATE. SO I'LL TURN IT OVER TO KATHY KNUTSON.
>> CHAIR JOHNSON: WELCOME.
GO AHEAD.
BECAUSE OUR MR. CHAIR MEMBERS OF THE
COMMITTEE COMMITTEE MY NAME IS KATHY KNUTSON ON
THE DEPUTY SUPERINTENDENT OF THE BUREAU OF CRIMINAL APPREHENSION AND I
OVERSEE THE CRIME OF ASPECT
OF THIS. YOU DO HAVE AN
INFORMATION SHEET IN FRONT
OF YOU. I REALLY JUST WANT TO TOUCH ON ABOUT FOUR
MAJOR TOPICS AS IT PERTAINS TO THE SEXUAL ASSAULT EVIDENCE
COLLECTION KIT AND WHEN THEY FINALLY KIND OF FINISH
THEIR JOURNEY THROUGH
THE HOSPITAL TO THE
LAW ENFORCEMENT AND ULTIMATELY END UP AT THE
FORENSIC LABORATORY. BEFORE I GET
INTO THAT REPRESENTATIVE MR. CHAIR I DON'T THINK
EVERYONE HAS THE BCA
SHEET. REPRESENTATIVE
>> REPRESENTATIVE I DON'T THINK EVERYONE HAS THE BCA
SHEET. SOME DO SOMETHING. >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
DOES EVERYONE HAVE THIS? SPEAK
REPRESENTATIVE LUCERO?
REPRESENTATIVE CONSIDINE
I MOVE THE HOUSE DO NOW ADJOURN. I JUST HAVE A QUICK QUESTION. MAY I ASK YOU NOW MR. CHAIR.
>> CHAIR JOHNSON: GO AHEAD.
I MOVE THE HOUSE DO NOW ADJOURN.
IF THE KID HAS
ALREADY BEEN CASE HAS ALREADY BEEN ADJUDICATED WHEN YOU CAN PICK IT? >> TESTIFIER: THERE'S A NUMBER OF SCHEDULES LAW ENFORCEMENT
MAINTAIN SO THEY WILL HOLD EVIDENCE NOT JUST IN TYPES OF THESE TYPE OF CASES WERE ALL CASE OF FOR A PERIOD OF TIME. ARE OFTEN DESIGNED BY WHETHER OR NOT
IT'S USEFUL IF THERE'S ANY APPEAL IN A PARTICULAR CASE WITH THE WHOLE VARIETY OF REASONS BUT THEY TEND TO SET VERY DELIBERATE
SCHEDULES REGARDLESS OF IT'S BEEN ADJUDICATED OR NOT TO
MAKE IT FOR THE USE OF WHEN
EVIDENCE SHOULD BE OR DESTROYED IN A PARTICULAR CASE AND IT VARIES FROM CASE BY
CASE TYPE. >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
REPRESENTATIVE LESCH >> REPRESENTATIVE LESCH: THANK YOU FOR YOUR MR. CHAIR
AND THINKING
FOR YOUR LATITUDE IN ALLOWING A NONMEMB
ER TO SIT. THERE'S A FEW MEMBERS THERE SITTING AT THE TABLE THERE WERE
ROUND INCLUDING
REPRESENTATIVE HILSTROM WHO
WHEN WE CRAFTED CHANGES FOR THE RETENTION
OF THIS EVIDENCE BASED UPON THE
THEN TRENDING
EXONERATION ISSUES IN THE NEWS ABOUT GOING
BACK AND TESTING
FOR POTENTIAL EXONERATION OF PEOPLE
OF CONVICTED THAT SHOULD HAV
E BEEN BASED ON TH
E DNA EVIDENCE SO IT'S GOT ALL OF HISTORY. I'M
NOT TRYING TO CHARGE THAT UP NOW BUT I'M WE WRESTLED
WITH THAT TRIAL
REPRESENTATIVE CONSIDINE. THANK YOU MR. CHAIR >> CHAIR JOHNSON: PLEASE; CONTINUE >> TESTIFIER: THANK YOU.
FIRST BEFORE I
GET INTO WHAT HAPPENS TO A KIT WHEN
IT REACHES THE BUREAU; I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE KIT ITSELF.
YOU DID HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE KIDS AND TO
SEE THE EXTENSIVE NATURE OF THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF EVIDENCE
THAT'S IN
THOSE KIDS AND THOSE KIDS WERE REALLY DESIGNED
VERY SPECIFICALLY
TO STREAMLINE THE PROCESS BOTH IN THE COLLECTION
ASPECT BUT ALSO IN THE FOREN
SIC LABORATORY. IT WAS TO STANDARDIZE THOSE KIDS MANY
YEARS AGO AND THOSE KIDS ARE
SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED BY THE
BCA AND PROVIDED FREE OF CHARGE
TO ANYONE WITHIN THE
MEDICAL FACILITY OR LAW ENFORCEMENT FACILITIES
WHO REQUEST THE CATS. WE SEND OUT
APPROXIMATELY 2000 OF THESE KIDS
A YEAR SO THEY CAN
BE USED IN THE COLLECTION OF THE EVIDENCE OF
THIS NATURE. OKAY; SO
WHEN THE THEY MAKE THEIR TRIP THROUGH THE LAW ENFORCEMENT THEY-WE
ARE NOTIFIED >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
REPRESENTATIVE HILSTROM >> REPRESENTATIVE HILSTROM:
TO THE KITS HAVE AN EXPIRATION? IS THERE ANYTHING INSIDE THE
KIT THAT CAUSES THEM TO
BE PERISHABLE? SPEECH OR DEPUTY
SUPER
ATTENDANT KNUTSON >> TESTIFIER: YES.
IS ONE PORTION OF THE KIT THAT HAS AN
EXPIRATION DATE
AND ITCONTAINS PERTAINS TO THE
BLOOD TO TO COLLECT A BLOOD SAMPLE AND REALLY THE EXPIRATION IS ON THAT SEAL. SO THAT CAN
BE SOMETHING A PORTION OF THE SKITS THAT CAN BE
SWITCHED OUT WITHIN A HOSPITAL FACILITY. SO THE KIT ITSELF AS A WHOLE; CAN
BE
USED PAST THE EXPIRATION DATE OF
THE COMPONENT. >> CHAIR JOHNSON: PLEASE; CONTINUE
>> TESTIFIER:
THE COMMISSION OF THE KITS; WE TEST
A APPROXIMATELY PROBABLY UP TO
THOUSAND SEXUAL
CRIMINAL CONDUCT CASES
OF OBESITY AND. THE MAJORITY OF THE CASES DO COME IN WITH EVIDENCE THAT INCLUDES A SEXUAL ASSAULT KITS. WE ARE NOTIFIED BY
LAW ENFORCEMENT
.. THEY ARE SUBMITTED. YOU ALREADY HEARD ABOUT THE EXTENSIVE CHAIN OF CUSTODY PAPERWORK. WE HAVE STREAMLINED OU
R SUBMISSION PAPERWORK SIGNIFICANTLY SO IT IS NO LONGER MULTI-PAGES. IT'S REALLY VERY SPECIFIC TO EACH TYPE OF CASE. SO WE TRY TO MAKE THE SUBMISSION PROCESS AS EASY
ON OUR AGENCIES AS WE CAN.
WE REQUIRE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF INFORMATION AND MAINLY BECAUSE THAT INFORMATION IS USED TO HELP
DRIVE THE TESTING OF
THE KITS. YOU SOUGHT THERE ARE 12;
PLUS SWABS.
THERE'S MISCELLANEOUS TYPES
OF EVIDENCE WITHIN THOSE KITS. IT IS NOT NECESSARY
TO TEST EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE PIECES OF EVIDENCE
AND THE INFORMATION THAT COMES IN ALONG WITH THOSE KITS. IT HELPS US TO TEST THESE KIDS;
STREAMLINE THEM;
AND REALLY TEST FOR THE
BEST EVIDENCE IN EVERY SINGLE CASE TO GIVE THE BEST
POSSIBLE CHANCE TO ASSIST IN THE INVESTIGATION DOWNSTREAM.
OKAY. SO UPON SUBMISSION; TYPICALLY THESE CASE WILL GO TO OUR BIOLOGY SECTION. IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE ALSO
THAT BIOLOGY IS THE
OBVIOUS CHOICE FOR TESTING FOR THESE KIDS. HOWEVER; THERE ARE
SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF THESE KIDS THAT COME IN WITH ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE THAT REQUIRES TESTING FOR ALCOHOL AND THE PRESENCE OF DRUGS. SO OUR TOXICOLOGY SECTION IS ALSO INVOLVED
IN THE TESTING OF SEXUAL ASSAULT CASES.
ONCE OF THE KIT IS SUBMITTED TO
THE LABORATORY IT IS FORWARDED TO THE BIOLOGY UNIT WHERE IT IS ASSESSED
FOR WHERE IT'S GOING TO GO; WHAT IS THE PROCEDURE GOING TO BE; THE CASE SPECIFICS ARE UTILIZED IN ORDER TO DETERMINE THE BEST POSSIB
LE PATH IN THAT FIRST STEP IS REALLY THE IDENTIFICATION TYPICALLY OF A BIOLOGICAL FLUID.
TO GO THROUGH EACH OF THE ITEMS OF EVIDENCE WITHIN
THE KIT DETERMINE WHETHER
OR NOT THERE'S A PRESENCE OF A
BIOLOGICAL FLUID
; AND WHETHER OR NOT SUBSEQUENTLY
AND EIGHT TESTING IS GOING TO BE HELPFUL FOR THE CASE. APPROXIMATELY 70-
75% OF THOSE CASES DO END UP
MOVING FORWARD
TO DNA TESTING. NOW THAT USED TO BE LOWER
BUT BECAUSE OF THE TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE CURRENTLY EMPLOYED AT THE BCA AND THE ABILITY TO
DETECT DNA ON MUCH
OLDER SAMPLES ON SAMPLES WITH
MUCH LESS
BIOLOGICAL FLUID; WE ARE ABLE TO NOW FORWARD MORE
OF THESE INTO DNA TO GET USEFUL INFORMATION THAT WE USED
TO. SO ONCE WE IDENTIFY A BI
OLOGICAL FLUID OVER A DNA WE CAN
TEST IT USING
VARIOUS TECHNIQUES. TYPICALLY WE WILL DO JUST DO
OUR
NORMAL NEW NUCLEAR DNA TESTING WHICH YOUR PROBAB
LY QUITE FAMILIAR WITH THAT'S THE ONE THAT EVERYONE HAS HEARD ABOUT AND THERE'S ALSO DIFFERENT TYPE OF TESTING THAT WE CAN DO TO TARGET MALE DNA AND THAT'S A USEFUL EXAMINATION THAT WE CAN USE IN SPECIFIC TYPES
OF CASES WITH HER IS EXPECTED TO BE A VERY LOW LEVEL OF MALE DNA IN
THE ENVIRONMENT OF A LOT OF FEMALE DNA.
IT'S ESSENTIALLY FINDING THE NEEDLE
IN THE HAYSTACK.
SPEECH OR >> CHAIR JOHNSON: PART
OF ME. REPRESENTATIVE UGLEM HAS
A QUESTION
>> REPRESENTATIVE UGLEM: HOW LONG DOES IT ACTUALLY TAKE FOR THE DNA TEST BEFORE YOU GET RESULTS BACK AND DOES IT VERY
BASED ON THE NUCLEAR TYPE OR
THE OTHER TEST METHOD?
>> TESTIFIER: IT DEPENDS.
HONESTLY; THE TEST ITSELF
DOESN'T TAKE THAT
TERRIBLY LONG. IT'
S TRULY HOW LONG IT TAKES US TO GET TO THE KIT IN
THE QUEUE WHICH IS WH
AT TAKES-WHICH CONTRIBUTE TO THE TURNAROUND TIME THE
MOST. OBVIOUSLY; IF THERE WERE
MORE PIECE
OF EVIDENCE IN A KIT THAT WE NEED TO TEST THE LONGER IT'S GOING TO TAKE WHICH IS WHY WE TRY TO FOCUS ON ONE OR TWO KEY PIECE OF EVIDENCE PER KIT TO MAXIMIZE THE AMOUNT
OF INFORMATION
THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO OBTAIN AND IF IT IS A DIFFICULT
COMPLEX KIT WE WILL HAVE TO DO ADDITIONAL TESTING THAT WILL ADD SOME TIME AS WELL BUT IF IT'S A
STRAIGHTFORWARD KIT WITH
ONE ITEM THE
TESTING ITSELF CAN BE DONE IN A MATTER OF DAYS.
BUT THEN IT GOES THROUGH ALL OF OUR
APPROVAL PROCESSES
. SO THE BEST CASE SCENARIO
WOULD BE A THREE DAY TURNAROUND TIME
AND WE DO DO THAT FOR SOME VERY HIGH-PRIORITY CASES THAT COME IN THAT INVOLVE CHILDREN WERE
HAVING IMMEDIATE RISK TO
PUBLIC SAFETY. >>
REPRESENTATIVE UGLEM: ONE OTHER QUESTION. IS THERE A DIFFERENCE IN THE ACCURACY OF
THE DNA TEST METHODS?
>> TESTIFIER: THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN THE ACCURACY. ALL THE EXAMINATIONS AND TECHNOLOGIES THAT WE USE HAVE BEEN VALIDATED
AND ARE UTILIZED ACCORDING TO OUR PROCEDURES. THE ACCURACY IS NOT NECESSARILY IN QUESTION.
I THINK YOU MIGHT
BE REFERENCING HOW MUCH INFORMATION CAN
WE OBTAIN EAST ON THE TECHNOLOG
Y AND IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE CASE ITSELF. IF IT IS A CASE THAT COMES IN
IT WAS COLLECTED IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING
THE ASSAULT; THERE
WAS A TRANSFER OF BIOLOGICAL FLUIDS;
WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A MUCH EASIER
TIME
IDENTIFYING THOSE FLUIDS AND DOING A DNA TEST ON THEM.
IF THIS IS A CASE OF A
SITUATION WHERE IT MAY
HAVE BEEN A DELAY IN
REPORTING; POTENTIAL
VERY MINIMAL TRANSMISSION OF
BIOLOGICAL FLUIDS;
SAY IT'S A TOUCH DNA CASE; WERE ONLY DIGITAL
PENETR
ATION OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES MAY HAVE HAPPENED; WERE DOING WITH A MUCH SMALLER AMOUNT OF DNA THAT WE
ARE TARGETING.
SO WE ARE GOING TO GET LESS RESULTS FROM
THAT TYPICALLY. >>
CHAIR JOHNSON: PLEASE; CONTINUE.
>> TESTIFIER: SO I THINK I GOT
THROUGH
THE TYPES OF DNA TESTING THAT CAN BE PERFORMED AT THE LEVER TO AT THAT POINT IN TIME WE COME UP WITH VARIOUS LEVELS OF
RESULTS. WHEN A KIT COMES IN IT'S USUALLY NOT THE ONLY PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT COMES IN. MANY OF THE CASES THAT COME IN COME WITH
KNOWN SUSPECTS OR INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE KNOWN TO THE CASE.
WE NEED FOR ELIMINATION SYMBOLS SUCH AS
CONSENSUAL PARTNERS ETC. WE ARE ALSO GOING TO TEST THOSE NO DNA SAMPLES FROM THOSE INDIVIDUALS SO THEY CAN BE
COMPARED TO THE EVIDENCE
DNA PROFILE CAME FROM THE KIDS. THAT CAN
LEAD TO EITHER A MATCH
TO A KNOWN SUSPECT. IT COULD LEAD TO A MAGIC TO A
CONSENSUAL PARTNER IN
WHICH CASE THE CASE IS DONE AND WE'VE DONE WHAT WE CAN
AS IT PERTAINS TO DNA. OR;
POTENTIALLY MATCHES NO ONE
OR NON-SUSPECT. IN THAT CASE;
AND MANY OF THE OTHER KIDS AND THOSE DNA PROFILES THAT OBTAIN FROM THE EVIDENCE CANNOT BE
ENTERED INTO THE STATE OR NATIONAL DNA INDEX SYSTEM WHICH IS A MORE COMMONLY KNOWN
AS COITUS.
>> CHAIR JOHNSON:
REPRESENTATIVE NEWBERGER >> RE
PRESENTATIVE NEWBERGER: WHAT IS THE STATE PAIN FOR
EACH OF THESE? WHAT IS YOUR COST?
>> TESTIFIER: EACH KIT
COST APPROXIMATELY EIGHT DOLLARS
>> REPRESENTATIVE NEWBERGER:
EIGHT DOLLARS?
THANK YOU. >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
PLEASE; CONTINUE BECAUSE OF OUR I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY THAT JUST THE KIT ITSELF NOT TESTING
. THE TESTING IS A LITTLE
BIT MORE. >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
REPRESENTATIVE HILSTROM >>
REPRESENTATIVE HILSTROM: YOU REFERENCED ONCE THE CASE
INVESTIGATION PIECE COMES UP
WITH DNA OR STANDARDS IN WHICH YOU CAN ENTER IT
INTO - ONCE SOME OF THESE CASES ARE RESOLVED THERE'S NO EVIDENTIARY VALUE IS THERE NO VALUE
IN ACTUALLY PROCESSING THOSE CASES FOR THE PURPOSES OF ENTERING THEM INTO THE DATABASE?
>> TESTIFIER: THE NO
EVIDENTIARY VALUE STATEMENT; I
BELIEVE IS TO THE CASE
AT HAND. THERE ARE MANY INTERPRETATIONS OF WHAT THAT CAN MEAN..
I THINK MANY OF THOSE
WERE COVERED BY MR. HUTTON EARLIER
REGARDING WHETHER IT'S A
CONSENT ISSUE OR THERE WAS NO
INFORMATION THAT SUPPORTS ANY SORT OF A
PHYSICAL CONSTIPATE SO WHAT WE FIND IN THE KIT MAY NOT HAVE ANY
SPECIFIC IMPACT ON THE CASE ITSELF. AS IT PERTAINS
TO HE FBI HAS SPECIFIC RULES FOR WHAT MAY ENTER THAT
DATABASE AND ONE OF THE RULES IN MONTH THERE HAS TO BE EVIDENCE OF A CRIME THAT
WAS COMMITTED. THAT
ONE WE WERE THE PION WHEN WE MA
KE A DETERMINATION AS TO WHAT SORT OF EXAMINATION WE WILL DO WHAT
SORT OF CASES WE
WILL ACCEPT. IF A CRIME HAS
BEEN COMMITTED BASIC DEFINITION OF THAT;
AND THE DNA PROFILE THAT
IS OBTAINED IS LIKELY TO HAVE
COME FROM THE
PUNITIVE PERPETRATOR AND IT MEETS THE
MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS FOR DATA QUALITY; THEN WE WILL PUT
IT INTO
THE DATABASE >> REPRESENTATIVE HILSTROM:
THANK YOU MAYBE THIS A QUESTION FOR THE WORKING GROUP. DID
YOU HAVE MAYBE REPRESENTED TRENTO; DID YOU HAVE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THESE CASES WHERE
THERE WERE SPECIFIC DECISIONS NOT TO SEND THEM INTO TESTING
BECAUSE CONSENT-THAT WAS THE ISSUE NOT WHO DID IT
AND WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS VALUE IN GETTING A DNA FOR
THE PURPOSES; BECAUSE IF YOU KNOW THERE'S CONVICTION THAT A CRIME HAPPENED?
>> CHAIR JOHNSON:
REPRESENTATIVE O'NEILL >> REPRESENTATIVE O'NEILL:;
HA
VE CAROLYN COME UP BECAUSE IT WAS A LARGE STAKEHOLDER GROUP AND A LOT OF SMALLER
SUB GROUPS THERE MIGHT'VE BEEN 100 PEOPLE
OR SO WORKING ON THAT SO I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY SUBGROUP
WHAT THE OPPOSITION
WAS BUT I'M UNDERSTANDING I BELIEVE THOUGH
IF IT WAS
A CONVICTION THAN THE DNA WOULD BE LOADED INTO
THE DATABASE.
MAYBE MISS KNUTSON CAN VERIFY THAT BUT THEN ALL AT CAROLYN TALK WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THE WORKING GROUP. >> CHAIR JOHNSON: [INAUDIBLE]
>> TESTIFIER: CONSENT IS A BIG
CONVERSATION; ABSOLUTE. SO SOME OF THE PIECES THAT WE
TALKED ABOUT
IN THIS A CONVERSATION THAT GOES ON THE
NATIONAL LEVEL; TOO; OTHER INSTANCES IN WHICH IT
MIGHT BE TO BRING THAT EVIDENCE FORWARD.
COULD THERE POTENTIALLY BE LINKS TO OTHER CASES OUT THERE THAT MIGHT SHOW UP IN
A DATABASE. A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THAT WOULD BE
SOME OF THE SITUATIONS WERE
HEARING ABOUT IN DETROIT FOR EXAMPLE WERE
CLEVELAND; THAT A HIGH NUMBER
OF CASES. THEY
DID FINE CONSENT CASES; TOO. SO AS WE BEEN HAVING
THESE CONVERSATIONS I THINK I WANT TO BE CLEAR I DON'T THINK THERE IS A WHOLESALE
OVERRULING WERE LEAVING OUT
CONSENT CASES. I THINK THERE'S MANY
MANY FACTORS THAT WILL COME INTO THE CONVERSATION. BUT
I THINK THAT THE END OF
THE DAY; WE WANT TO
MAKE SURE AS MANY KIDS GO THROUGH
AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE OUR POTENTIAL FOR GETTING
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT
OTHER CASES. >> REPRESENTATIVE HILSTROM:
SO THEN ULTIMATELY WHO MAKES
THE DECISION IN A CONSENT TYPE CASE AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT'S GOING
TO BE FORWARDED?
>> TESTIFIER: WELL THE WAY WE HAVE LOOK AT IT THROUGH OUR PROCESS RIGHT NOW IS THERE IS A
CONSIDERATION OF
LAW ENFORCEMENT BY WHICH KIDS WILL BE
FORWARDED BUT WE ALSO INCLUDE IN OUR
PROPOSED LEGISLATION IS CONSULTATION
WITH PROSECUTION.. FOR SOME REASON A KIT IS NOT GOING FOR THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS RECORDED IN CONSULTATION WITH THE
ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. >>
CHAIR JOHNSON: MISS KNUTSON; IF YOU WANT TO-
RREPRESENTED O'NEILL >> REPRESENTATIVE O'NEILL: IF MS. KNUTSON CAN JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION ABOUT AFTER CONVICTION DOES THAT DNA GET LOADED INTO
THE DATABASE?
>> TESTIFIER: WHEN WE DEAL
WITH CONVICTIONS THAT'S REALLY A DIFFERENT SIDE OF THE HOUSE
. THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE EVIDENCE IN THE CASE THAT
GOES INTO
THE DATABASE THAT'S ON THE INVESTIGATIVE SIDE OF THINGS. WHEN WE DO THE TESTING. AFTER
THE FACT
;; WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL IS CONVICTED OF A
QUALIFYING CRIME PER THE STATE STATUTE; THEN
A KNOWN SAMPLE IS SUBMITTED AND THAT'S ENTERED INTO THE DATABASE AND PUT INTO THE CONVICTED OFFENDER SIDE OF THE DATABASE.
>> CHAIR JOHNSON:
REPRESENTATIVE ZERWAS >> REPRESENTATIVE ZERWAS: I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT IS POSTCONVICTION;
THAT NO ONE ONE OFFENDER
CONVICTED OFFENDER SAMPLE IS
LOADED UP. SO; YOU DON'T HAVE
AN
INCIDENT WHERE CONVICTED INDIVIDUALS ARE POTENTIALLY NOT
BEEN IDENTIIFIED
OR TRACKED BACK TO PREVIOUS
CRIMES BECAUSE THEY ARE KNOWN SAMPLES
BEING UPLOADED AT THE TIME
OF CONVICTION VERSUS THE IDEA THAT
WE NEED TO TEST EVERY CASE
EVEN WHEN SEXUAL CONTACT IS NOT
BEING DISPUTED TO UPLOAD IN ORDER TO
TRACK THAT OTHER CRIMES. THAT IS DONE
--CAN BE DONE ON THE BACKEND OF THE
POSTCONVICTION DATABASE.
>> CHAIR JOHNSON:
REPRESENTATIVE HILSTROM FEELS IT'S MINOR SENATE IT RESULTS IN A DNA TESTING IF YOU HAVE
UPFRONT IN THE
TESTING DNA AND RESULTS IN
A CONVICTION THAT IS NOT A FELONY TO KEEP THE DATABASE FROM THE EVIDENCE IN
THE DATABASE OR YOU TAKE IT UP
BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU CAN ONLY GET THE FELONY CONVICTION
DNA; POSTCONVICTION?
>> TESTIFIER: THAT
IS CORRECT. THE CONVICTED OFFENDER SAMPLES ARE
ONLY SUBMITTED PER STATE STATUTE AND THAT
IS AT THIS POINT
ALL FELONIES AND OR ANY CONVICTION THAT AROSE FROM AN INITIAL CHARGE OF
A FELONY. SO WHAT DOES HAPPEN FOR THE
CASES THAT RESULTED IN
FORENSIC EVIDENCE FROM THE KIT; THAT
EVIDENCE DATA
IF QUALIFIED WILL GO TO THE DATABASE ON THE
FORENSIC DATABASE AND IT WILL STAY THERE REGARDLESS
OF CONVICTION.
>>
CHAIR JOHNSON: THANK YOU. PLEASE; CONTINUE >> TESTIFIER: I THINK NOW IS
GOOD TIME
TO EXPLAIN MORE ABOUT WHAT MAKES UP KOTAS
AND I MENTIONED A BIT OF THE VARIOUS DATABASES. IT IS DIVVIED UP INTO
A HANDFUL OF DATABASES. ONE OF THEM IS THE DATABASE THAT
HOUSES
[INAUDIBLE] COLLECTED IN MINNESOTA AND THE UNITED STATES PER STATE STATUTE. THEN
THERE'S ALSO
A [INAUDIBLE] DATABASE SEVERAL STATES
THE ACTIVE LAWS.
THAT DATABASE COUNTS AS
THOSE SAMPLES AND THEN THERE'S THE FORENSIC DATABASE AND THE FORENSIC DATABASE IS THE DATABASE WHERE
ALL THESE DNA PROFILES FROM
THE KIDS AND
EVIDENCE FROM ANY CRIME; REALLY; ACROSS THE UNITED STATES WILL BE
ENTERED INTO IN THESE DATABASE SEARCHES
THEN COMPARED TO EACH OTHER. SO THE FORENSIC INDEX
SO DNA PROFILE IS OBTAINED FROM A KIT IT'S PUTTING A FORENSIC INDEX AND OVER THE COURSE OF TI
ME IMMEDIATELY IN
AN ONGOING AS NEW SAMPLES ARE ADDED IS COMPARED TO THE
CONVICTED OFFENDER DATABASE RESCUE
DATABASE NATIONALLY AND OTHER SAMPLES WITHIN THE FORENSIC INDEX. WE CAN OBTAIN NATURAL
RESULTS; OR HITS; FROM ANY OF THOSE DATABASES. AT THAT POINT IN TIME; WE WILL CONFIRM THESE HITS WITH THE INFORMATION WE MAY HAVE ABOUT THOSE
PARTICULAR CASES. WE WILL REPORT THOSE HITS TO LOCAL TO THE
SUBMITTING AGENCY.
WE WILL AT TIMES WHEN APPROPRIATE DEPENDING ON THE TYPE OF HITS THAT IT IS; WE WILL PROVIDE INFORMATION ABOUT THE OFFENDER THAT IT HIT
TWO AS WELL AS ANY CASES THAT IT HIT TOO. SO IF THERE'S A CASE TO CASE HIT WE WILL PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION BECAUSE THERE MAY BE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
AND THE OTHER HIT CASES THAT COULD ASSIST IN THE INVESTIGATION OF THE CASE AT HAND. THAT INFORMATION IS RELAYED TO THE SUBMITTING AGENCY FOR
FURTHER FOLLOW-UP OR WHATEVER-WHEREVER IT MAY BE SITTING OR WHEREVER IT MIGHT BE WITH THEIR
CURRENT INVESTIGATION IN
THE CASE. WHEN WE HAVE A HIT THROUGH
A CONVICTED OFFENDER
SAMPLE ADDITIONALLY WE ARE REQUIRED
A KNOWN ADDITIONAL KNOWN SAMPLE
TO BE SUBMITTED. SO WE ASK THAT
THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY
GOES OUT FINDS THIS INDIVIDUAL GETS ANOTHER KNOWN SAMPLE
SO WE CAN CONFIRM THAT HIT
AND THEN AT THAT POINT IN TIME THOSE
CASES
ARE [INAUDIBLE] >> CHAIR JOHNSON: I DO HAVE
ONE QUESTION YOU ARE TALKING
ABOUT THE DATABASE DOES TH
E EVIDENTIARY OFFER; IS THAT JUST FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT
.. WHAT APPEARS A BURGLARY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? WITH THAT DNA BE PUT IN THAT SYSTEM AS WELL?
>> TESTIFIER: MR. CHAIR;
YESTERDAY THE INDEXES FOR ALL
CASE BUT IT'S NOT SPECIFIC TO
SEXUAL ASSAULT.
THERE ARE A FAIR AMOUNT OF SEXUAL ASSAULT CASES IN THE. >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS BY
THE MEMBERS? WELL; THANK YOU.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO WRAP UP
>> TESTIFIER:
THANK YOU TO THE COMMITTEE AND I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO ALL OF
OUR TESTIFIERS
THROUGH THIS WORKGROUP PROCESS I THINK W
E HAVE.REALLY GROWN TO
APPRECIAT CHALLENGES
AND DIFFICULTIES IN ALL THIS WORK AND I KNOW
I CERTAINLY
-I MEAN GROWN TO UNDERSTAND
HOW MUCH GOES ON AT THE BCA JUST TO
START WITH AND EVERYWHERE ELSE COULD
ALSO I THINK REPRESENTATIVE O'NEILL FOR BEING OUR CHAMPION ON THIS ISSUE. SHE'S COME TO SOME OF THE WORKGROUP MEETINGS AND REALLY DUGGAN AND UNDERSTOOD
THE INFORMATION.
WERE REALLY PLEASED OF SUCH GREAT PARTNERSHIPS HERE IN THE LEGISLATURE. THE OTHER THING I JUST WANT TO BRING YOUR ATTENTION TO TO KNOW THAT'S ALSO KIND OF GOING ON ALONGSIDE THIS AND GETS TO REPRESENTATIVE HILSTROM QUESTION; TOO; IS TRAINING I MENTIONED EARLIER
WE ARE TRYING TO DO MORE TRAINING FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT NURSE EXAMINERS BUT WE ARE ALSO DOING THAT FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT
AND OTHER
PARTS OF THE SYSTEM THAT WILL BE
ENCOUNTERING VICTIMS. ONE OF THAT
PIECE IS TRAUMA INFORMED INVESTIGATION TECHNIQUES. MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE DOING THE VERY BEST ON THE
FRONT AND
WERE WORKING WITH VICTIMS TO GET AS MUCH INFORMATION AS WE CAN
WE CAN UNDERSTAND THAT FROM A NURSE
LEVEL BUT AT LEAST SOME LEVEL OF THE BIOLOGY OF TRAUMA AND HOW PEOPLE RESPOND BECAUSE I
THINK SOMETIMES WE KNOW
THERE ARE MYTHS
IN OUR CULTURALLY ABOUT
SEXUAL ASSAULT. YOU CAN GO BACK TO [INAUDIBLE] AND THINGS LIKE THAT. I DON'T
BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF TRAUMA AND THE WAY WE [INAUDIBLE] IN
LAW ENFORCEMENT INVESTIGATIONS
LINDA [INAUDIBLE] SHE WORKED
WITH PATIENTS COUNTY ATTORNEYS
MNCS
A TRAUMA INFORMED APPROACH WHEN THEY'RE EXAMINING WITNESSES ON THE STAND. SO ALL THE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT WE CAN CHANGE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN HOW WE ARE MOVING CASES THROUGH THE SYSTEM.
SO I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO EVERYBODY AGAIN
AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO
FURTHER CONVERSATIONS. >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
THANK YOU AND THANK YOU FOR THE GROUP
THAT DID A VERY THOROUGH LOOK AT THIS ISSUE.
I BELIEVE MOST OF THE MEMBERS HAVE A COPY
OF THE BILL THAT WAS DRAFTED
YESTERDAY FOR THEM TO GO OVER THE NEXT FEW DAYS AND
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT IT I
BELIEVE IT MARY O'NEILL'S
BILL SO SHE'LL BE ABLE TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
THAT IS ABOUT WRAPPING IT UP TODAY. I DO HAVE ONE ANNOUNCEMENT
PURSUANT TO HOUSE
RULE 4.31; ON THURSDAY; HOUSE FILE 1669
AND 1605 WILL BE ADDED TO
THE AGENDA. WITH THAT; WE WILL
BE ADJOURNED.
>> [GAVEL] >> [ADJOURNMENT]
>>
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