REPRESENTATIVE
PINTO DO YOU HAVE A MOTION ON
THE BILL >>
REPRESENTATIVE PINTO: MR. CHAIR I DO. I UNDERSTAND THE NEXT UP FOR THE BILL WOULD BE A
GO TO CIVIL LAW COMMITTEE
AND SO MR. CHAIR AND MEMBERS; I
MOVE THAT HOUSE HOUSE FILE
1660 9B REFER TO THE CIVIL
LAW COMMITTEE
THE NEXT UP IN CONSIDERATION OF THE PROCESS. >> CHAIR JOHNSON: GO HEA
D. >> REPRESENTATIVE PINTO: THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. MEMBERS; THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE AS
PAST WEEK. THE DECISION TO FINALLY
PUSH FOR
HEARINGS FOR THESE TWO BILLS WAS ALL
MADE LIGHTLY. BUT MEMBERS; WE FACE
A CRISIS. IN THE YEAR THESE BILLS HAVE
BEEN SITTING AND WAITING
IN HEARING; WELL OVER
30;000 AMERICANS NEARLY
1300 CHILDREN HAVE DIED FROM
GUNSHOTS. MANY MORE HAVE BEEN WOUNDED. THESE
ARE RATES MANY
TIMES HIGHER THAN IN OTHER
INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRIES. ALSO; IN THIS
PAST YEAR MILLIONS OF AMERICANS
; HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF MINNESOTANS HAVE
USED FIREARMS
FOR HUNTING FOR RECREATION AND SPORT
AS A HOBBY; FOR
PERSONAL PROTECTION. MEMBERS; WE CAN
KEEP GUNS; MORE GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF
DANGEROUS PEOPLEAND ALSO UPHOLD
THE RIGHTS OF THOSE MINNESOTANS. WE CAN
DO BOTH. WE MUST DO BOTH. THESE
TWO BILLS TODAY TO JUST THAT. THE
FIRST BILL HOUSE
HOUSE FILE 1669 HAS TO DO WITH CRIMINAL
BACKGROUND CHECKS. UNDER
CURRENT LAW CRIMINAL
BACKGROUND CHECK
APPLIES TO SALES OF FIREARMS THROUGH
FEDERAL I'VE BEEN THROUGH FF
HELP FEDERAL
FIREARMS LICENSEES. BASICALLY
THROUGH DEALERS. BUT NOT SALES TO
OTHER PEOPLE. HOUSE FILE
1669 TAKES THE BACKGROUND CHECK
THAT APPLIES THE SALES DEALERS
IN MANY SALES TO DEALERS AND APPLIES THAT TO ALL
GUN SALES WITH I
SHOULD NOTE COMMONSENSE EXCEPTIONS
SUCH AS TRANSFERS WITHIN THE FAMILY AND A NUMBER OF OTHER EXCEPTION
AS WELL. THIS IS AN APPROACH MEMBERS THAT THE NEWS RIGHT NOW
IN MANY STATES WITH
DIFFERENT VARIATIONS IS BEING USED
RIGHT NOW. HAVING A CRIMINAL
BACKGROUND CHECK ON ALL SALES
SUPPORTED BY THE GREAT MAJORITY
OF MINNESOTANS.. THE GREAT MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS; THE
GREAT MAJORITY OF OWNERS
OF FIREARMS. AS THEM IS NO COME OUTSIDE THE LEGISLATURE I SERVE AS A PROSECUTOR I'VE SPECIALIZED
IN DOMESTIC AND SEXUAL VIOLENCE CASES BUT IT HANDLED A WIDE VARIETY OF CASES.
INCLUDING CASES WERE
VIOLENT FELONS WERE IN POSSESSION
OF GUNS. NOW; RIGHT NOW;
BACKGROUND CHECK
WILL PREVENT A VIOLENT FELON OR OTHER
PROHIBITED PERSON
FROM ACQUIRING
A GUN TO AN EFFORT FELL THROUGH
A DEALER. THAT HAPPENS BY
THE WAY; ABOUT 150;000 TIMES A YEAR. SOMEONE
WHO'S PROHIBITED IS PREVENTED FROM GETTING A GUN BECAUSE OF THIS BACK ON CHECK SYSTEM BECAUSE THEY GO THROUGH
THAT DOOR. BUT THERE'S NO
BACKGROUND CHECK IF
THAT SAME PROHIBITED PERSON BUYS THROUGH SOME
ONE ELSE. MEMBERS; THAT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE.
RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS DO NOT WANT
THEIR FARMS TO END UP IN THE HANDS
OF PEOPLE WERE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE
THEM TO PULL SHOW LIKE THEY LIKE ALL MINNESOTANS STRONGLY
SUPPORT HAVING CRIMINAL
BACKGROUND CHECKS ON ALL SALES
OF FIREARMS. SO TO CALL MY
FIRST TESTIFIER
CHIEF NIGHT. >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
CHIEF NIGHT IF YOU CAN SAY YOUR NAME
AND START..
>> TESTIFIER: MEMBERS OF THE
PUBLIC;
IS YOUR CHAIR AND NUMBERS; MY NAME IS
SCOTT KNIGHT. I AM
THE CHIEF OF POLICE IN THE CITY OF CHASKA
AND ALSO
A PAST PRESIDENT OF THE
MINNESOTA CHIEFS. I SERVED AS THE FIREARMS
COMMITTEE CHAIR FOR THE
INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION
OF CHIEFS OF POLICE FOR A NUMBER
OF YEARS AND I'M A FORMER CHAIR OF THE NATIONAL
LAW-ENFORCEMENT PARTNERSHIP TO PREVENT
GUN VIOLENCE. I'M HERE REPRESENTING MINNESOTA
CHIEFS TODAY IN SUPPORT OF WHAT YOU
JUST HEARD IN REGARD TO
BACKGROUND CHECKS. YOU ARE AWARE THAT SOME IF SOMEONE TO
BUY OUT
AND AWAY A WEAPON FROM AFL OF FEDERALLY LICENSED
DEALER THEY GO THROUGH
A CHECK. IT'S PRETTY WELL-KNOWN
THAT ABOUT 40% OF GUN
TRANSACTIONS SALES DON'T GO THROUGH A
BACKGROUND CHECK WHICH MEANS
THAT PEOPLE WHO WOULD OTHERWISE
BE PROHIBITED FROM PROCURING
A FIREARM CAN
AND DO. THEY CAN GET THEM ONLINE. THEY CAN GO TO A
GUN SHOW. THEY CAN GO TO A GARAGE SALE.
THEY CAN ANSWER AN AD IN THE PAPER.
GET A TRANSACTION HAVE
A WEAPON NOT KNOWING WHETHER OR NOT THEY
ARE A SPEEDY PERSON
MINNESOTA CHIEFS HAVE ALWAYS AND
WE CONTINUE TO SUPPORT
THE EXPANSION OF COMPREHENSIVE
BACKGROUND CHECKS. WE ASK
YOU TO OBSERVE THIS; PLEASE.
>> TESTIFIER: MR. CHAIR;
I WILL BRING UP
SECOND TESTIFIER DAKOTA COUNTY ATTY.
JIM BACKSTROM. >> CHAIR JOHNSON: THANK YOU.
>> TESTIFIER:
JAMES BACKSTROM DAKOTA COUNTY ATTY. MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS
PAST PRESIDENT OF THE
MINNESOTA COUNTIES ATTORNEY ASSOCIATION I DO A HANDOUT
OF SOMEONE A PASS THAT OUT I WOULD
APPRECIATE IT.
I'M HEADING OUT IS
THE POSITION MINNESOTA COUNTY ATTORNEYS ASSOCIATION IN
REFERENCE TO A STATEMENT OF PRINCIPLES ON FIREARMS AS
WE ADOPT
THEM IN OCTOBER 22 BUT IS STILL
APPLICABLE TODAY. IT SPECIFICALLY RELATES TO
THE BILL IN FRONT OF YOU;
THE 1669 BILL REGARDING THE
BACKGROUND CHECKS BECAUSE WE DO SUPPORT
A COMMON SENSE APPROACH TO
BACKGROUND CHECKS WHICH
REQUIRES
ALL SELLERS WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS WHICH ARE GOING
TO BUT THE SELLERS
OF GUNS TO MAKE SURE THERE ARE
BACKGROUND CHECKS I BELIEVE THE
VAST MAJORITY OF CITIZENS IN
OUR STATE AND IN OUR
NATION SUPPORT THIS TYPE OF
A PROPOSAL. IT MAKES
COMMON SENSE. THE EXCEPTIONS
AS ARTICULATED IN
THIS DOCUMENT WOULD BE SALES
FOR INTER-FAMILIAR-WITHIN A FAMILY SALES OF WEAPONS AND WE WOULD
ALSO ENCOURAGE YOU AS YOU
CONSIDER ADOPTING A BILL OF
THIS NATURE TO EXCLUDE
A LONG ARMS; THE SHOTGUNS
THE RIFLES THAT DO NOT CONSTITUTE
SEMI AUTOMATIC TYPE
ASSAULT WEAPONS WHICH WE BELIEVE SHOULD ALWAYS GO THROUGH
BACKGROUND CHECKS. BUT THOSE TYPES OF WEAPONS WHICH ARE USED FOR HUNTING
WHICH WE HAVE A LONG AND PROUD
TRADITION APPEAR IN OUR
GREAT STATE WE WOULD SUPPORT
NOT CHANGING THE RULES REFERENCE TO THAT BUT CLEARLY WITH REFERENCE TO HANDGUNS AND SEMI AUTOMATIC
ASSAULT WEAPONS
BACKGROUND CHECKS; THESE NEED TO
TAKE PLACE REFERENCE TO ALL
SALES WHETHER THEY ARE DONE THROUGH A
FEDERAL LICENSED ARMS DEALER
OR NOT.. WE SIMPLY HAVE
AS REPRESENTATIVE PINTO ALLUDED TO WE HAVE AN EPIDEMIC OF GUN VIOLENCE IN THIS COUNTRY
THERE'S OVER 33;000 PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES
THAT DIED LAST YEAR'S WORTH OF
GUN VIOLENCE. OVER 85;000 OR ALMOST
85;000 MORE SUFFERED NONFATAL
GUN INJURIES. WE NEED
TO MAKE ADOPT COMMON SENSE APPROACHES
TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES. THE SECOND BILL IN FRONT OF YOU
TODAY; 1605
; MY STATE ASSOCIATION IS NOT HAD TIME TO REVIEW AND CONSIDER THIS PROPOSAL BUT I BELIEVE W
E WILL SUPPORT THIS. I PERSONALLY SUPPORT THIS PROPOSAL
. AGAIN IT MAKES COMMON SENSE FOR THOSE
IN
SITUATIONS WHERE THERE'S AN ELEMENT OF DANGER THAT
EITHER LAW-ENFORCEMENT OR A FAMILY MEMBER SHOULD BE ABLE TO OBTAIN A PROTECTIVE ORDER TO BRING THAT SOMEONE FROM POSSESSING
A FIREARM UNDER
THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES.
SO THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE
HERE TODAY. AND TESTIFY IN REFERENCE
TO THESE
BILLS. >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
>> TESTIFIER: THEN FINALLY MY
THIRD TESTIFIER SERVES AS
A PEDIATRICIAN.
>> TESTIFIER:
>> CHAIR JOHNSON: PLEASED THE NAME FOR
THE RECORD >> TESTIFIER: THANK YOU VERY MUCH
MR. CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE. MY NAME
IS ANDREW--I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE
MINNESOTA CHAPTER OF THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS
AND I'M ALSO CURRENTLY THE INTERIM CHIEF
OF PEDIATRICS AND THE MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF THE INTENSIVE CARE UNIT AT HENNEPIN
COUNTY
MEDICAL CENTER. I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO TESTIFY BEFORE YOU ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECKS
BILL THAT'S UNDER CONSIDERATION AT
THIS TIME. AS AN INTENSIVE
CARE PHYSICIAN
IN A LEVEL ONE PEDIATRIC TRAUMA CENTER HAD
THE PRIVILEGE OF TAKING CARE
OF CHILDREN THAT ARE CRITICALLY ILL OR
SERIOUSLY INJURED FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS.
UNFORTUNATELY; GIVEN THE NATURE OF THE WORK
I DO I SEE A FAIR AMOUNT
OF SUFFERING EXPERIENCED BY THE
MOST VULNERABLE
OF THOSE AMONGST US OUR
CHILDREN. DEATH AND DEVASTATING
LIFE-CHANGING DISABILITY OR SOME OF THE
SADDEST THINGS THAT I'VE HAD TO
DEAL WITH. I'M
ESPECIALLY SADDENED WHEN
THE INJURIES COULD'VE BEEN EASILY
PREVENTED. OUTBREAK-OOUTRAGE HEARTBREAK
AND FRUSTRATION ARE JUST A FEW OF THE EMOTIONS OF EXPENSE EVERY TIME I SEE A CHILD
WAS BEEN
SENSELESSLY INJURED OR KILLED BY COUNTRY AND I'M HERE SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF OVER 1000 PEDIATRICIANS WERE MEMBERS OF
THE MINNESOTA AAP.
AS PEDIATRICIANS; WE ARE TEST FOR CARING FOR MOST VULNERABLE OF US
OUR
NATION'S CHILDREN. WE ARE HORRIFIED BY
THE CARNAGE WROUGHT ON CHILDREN BY GUNS
AND MORE WITH THEIR FAMILIES.
WE BELIEVE THAT FIREARM VIOLENCE
IS A SERIOUS PUBLIC
HEALTH ISSUE
AND THAT WHEN THE POLICYMAKERS CAN NO LONGER IGNORE. ESPECIALLY WINDFARMS RELATED DEATHS
ARE AMONG THE TOP THREE CAUSES OF DEATH IN
AMERICAN YOUTH. WE ARE HERE SPEAKING IN STRONG SUPPORT
OF HS 16 SYSTEM WHILE NO SINGLE I WAS UP ALL GUN VIOLENCE
EXPANDING THE BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM IS A PROVEN WAY TO HELP
SAVE LIVES BA
CKGROUND CHECKS HAVE PREVENTED MILLIONS
OF FIREARMS FROM LANDING INTO HANDS OF DANGEROUS INDIVIDUALS.
LADIES
AND GENTLEMEN; YOU HAVE THIS MOMENTOUS OPPORTUNITY
TO MAKE MINNESOTA'S
CHILDREN SAFER. I URGE YOU NOT TO WASTE
THIS CHANCE.
THANK YOU. >> CHAIR JOHNSON: THANK YOU.
>> REPRESENTATIVE PINTO: IF I MADE MR. CHAIR TO MAKE A
FEW CONCLUDING MARKS TO
THE TESTIMONY >> CHAIR JOHNSON: GO AHEAD
>> REPRESENTATIVE PINTO: I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THIS IS A
BIPARTISAN PUZZLE
AT THE STATE LEVEL BECAUSE
HE REPRESENTATIVE ANSELMO HERE IN SUPPORT OF COURSE OF THE
FEDERAL APPEARED PRESIDENT TRUMP CAME OUT
SUPPORT YESTERDAY AND OTHERS
AS WELL. THIS IS IN USE IN A VARIETY
OF STATES AND OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS IT'S BEEN IN USE AND I'D LIKE MEMBERS JUST TO
HAVE US BE
THINKING ABOUT GOING TO
THE AIRPORT AND THERE'S A SECURITY LINE AT
THE AIRPORT AND THERE IS A SCREENING THAT GOES THROUGH TO
MAKE SURE WHEN SOMEBODY GETS ON
A PLANE WE ARE SURE THAT PERSON IS GOING TO BE SAVED TO BE ON THE PLANE. RIGHT NOW; WE HAVE
THAT
SECURITY LINE SALES THROUGH NFL'S AND THERE'S A SEPARATE
ACCESS POINT THAT PEOPLE CAN WALK RIGHT ON THROUGH
THAT DOES
NOT HAVE THE SAME SORT OF SCREENING. IT MAY BE
THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE ON THE PLANE; THIS IS NOT A
PROBLEM FOR.
EACH OF US IT WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM FOR BUT
I WOULD FEEL MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE WHEN I'M ON THE PLANE KNOWING THAT THAT WAS NOT THAT
SECOND ENTRANCE THAT IS ON OF THE SAME BACKGROUND CHECK IS THE
FIRST ONE I WANT
TO EMPHASIZE THAT AS YOU HEAR THE TESTIMONY
TO FOLLOW
TO KEEP IN MIND THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME
BACKGROUND CHECK CONDUCTED ON
MANY SALES.. I THINK THE CHIEF
SPOKE A LITTLE B
IT EARLIER REFERENCE AS MANY AS 40%
OF SALES [INAUDIBLE] I THINK OF SOME INFORMATION YOU CAN ACTUALLY IS A SIGNIFICANT LOWER PERCENTAGE THAT DO NOT HAVE A
BACKGROUND CHECK. PERHAPS MORE
LIKE 10-15%.
THAT'S STILL AS A NUMBER OF SALES THAT ARE
NOT RECEIVING THE BACKGROUND CHECK THAT ALL THOSE OTHER CELLS ARE RECEIVING.
THAT ARE CATCHING 150;000 PEOPLE A YEAR
OR PROHIBITED FROM
HAVING ACCESS AND SHOULD NOT BE HAVING ACCESS
TO FIREARMS. SO KEEP IN MIND
AS YOU
CONSIDER THIS THAT THIS IS SIMPLY PROPOSING TO
THE SAME CHECKS BEING DOWN RIGHT NOW APPARENTLY 85% OF
SALES LET'S MAKE SURE THAT COVERS UP
TO 100% AND
KEEP MORE WEAPONS OUT OF THE HANDS OF PEOPLE WERE
NOT ALLOWED TO
HAVE THEM. MR. CHAIR AND MEMBERS; THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR LISTENING TO
THIS TESTIMONY.
>> CH
AIR JOHNSON: REPRESENTATIVE PINTO; THANK YOU.
AT THIS TIME I HAVE ROB
>
> REPRESENTATIVE SHOULD I STAY APPEAR OR SHOULD I GO BACK TO MY SEAT WHAT IS YOUR PREFERENCE
>> CHAIR JOHNSON: THAT WOULD BE YOUR OPTION. PLEASE DO
YOUR NAME
BECAUSE I THINK YOU MR. CHAIR NEVERS LIQUID I'M ROB DORK
AND I RE
PRESENT THE MINNESOTA GUNOWNERS CAUCUS. ON THE
POLITICAL DIRECTOR. WE SPEAK ON BEHALF OF MINNESOTA'S
2.5 MILLION LAW-ABIDING GUN OWNERS NAVIGATE ON THE
IR BEHALF. FIRST OFF I WANT TO SAY WE DO BELIEVE
THIS BILL
IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL. WHILE I UNDERSTAND NOT EVERYBODY SEES IT THAT WAY YOU WANT TO TRY TO APPEAL TO A LITTLE BIT OF LOGIC.
WE HEARD HERE THAT THERE'S AN EPIDEMIC OF
GUN VIOLENCE LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT FROM THE 1990S FIREARM
HOMICIDE RATE
IS LOWER THAN 50% OF WHAT IT USED
TO BE. WE'RE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AT THE SAME TIME; GUN SALES
AND PERMIT
CARRIES SKYROCKETED. I THINK WE ARE MOVING IN THE
RIGHT DIRECTION.
ANOTHER THING I LIKE TO POINT OUT TO YOU
THAT 70% OF OUR GUN DEATHS
ARE SUICIDE. THAT IS
TRAGIC. BUT; THE STRATEGIES TO ADDRESS
GUN VIOLENCE IN THE STRATEGIES TO
ADDRESS SUICIDES COMPARED TO
VIOLENT CRIMES VASTLY DIFFERENT STRATEGIES IS NOT A CATCHALL.
THE CONVERSATION IS
WORTH HAVING.
YOU'VE HEARD THE VAST MAJORITY
OF GUNOWNERS SUPPORT PROPOSALS LIKE THIS BUT WE CONDUCTED A SURVEY OF OUR MEMBERSHIP LAST YEAR
AND USING ONCE WE APPLY THE
SPECIFIC LANGUAGE OF THIS BILL AND FEELS
LIKE IT IN THE RESTRICTIONS
THERE'S 95% OPPOSITION TO BILLS
LIKE THIS. PEOPLE GENERALLY SUPPORT THE IDEA
BACKGROUND CHECKS BUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE RESTRICTIONS ON
TRANSFERS; THE RESTRICTIONS
ON LOANS; VOTING SOMEBODY A FARM TO GO HUNTING FOR
THE WEEKEND; THAT'S WHEN THEY START TO REALLY
FALL OFF.
ONCE WE ACTUALLY ADDRESS THE SPECIFIC ISSUES GET
GRAD REPRESENTATIVE PINTO CORRECTED
THE 40%
OF GUN SALES HAPPEN WITHOUT BACKGROUND CHECK IT
NUMBER HAS DEBUNKED OVER AND OVER AGAIN IT'S A
20-YEAR-OLD SURVEY OF 250 PEOPLE
THAT INCLUDED DATA PRIOR TO BACKGROUND CHECKS BECOMING LAW.
THE WASHINGTON POST HAS
GIVEN THAT LIFE PINOCCHIO OVER AND
OVER AGAIN. I ALSO WANT TO SAY THAT WE DO HAVE
EMPIRICAL DATA WASHING STATE HAS
EASILY ENACTED UNIVERSAL BACK
ON CHECKS AS THEY
CALL IT THEY DEFY THAT 2% OF THEIR SALES
WHETHER TRANSFERS
HAVE GONE I'VE BEEN THROUGH PRIVATE PARTIES OR
THIRD PARTIES. SO THERE'S NUMBERS THAT'S A 10-12% FOR THE EMPIRICAL DATA SHOWS
2% FROM WASHING ACTUALLY GO THROUGH
PRIVATE PARTIES. WE KNOW THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF
JUSTICE STUDIES THAT
THE VAST MAJORITY OF CRIMINALS GET
THEIR FARMS THROUGH
STRAW PURCHASES. THE GUNS ARE GOING THROUGH
BACKGROUND CHECKS BUT THEY ARE
STRATEGICALLY
AND FELONIOUSLY ABUSING
THE SYSTEM IN ORDER TO GET THOSE FARMS.
THIS BILL DOES NOT ADDRESS THAT.
THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER THINGS I COULD
GO INTO I THINK I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET THE OPINIONS OF SOME OF OUR OTHER MEMBERS HERE
YOU WANT TO SPEAK IN OPPOSITION TO THIS BILL BUT
I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER
ANY QUESTIONS GUYS CAN FIND ME IN THE HALLS. I'M HERE
EVERY DAY. IT'S NOT TOO HARD TO
MISS ME. >> CHAIR JOHNSON: THANK YOU.
BEEN RUST.
>> TESTIFIER: GOOD MORNING CHAIR JOHNSON AND THE COMMITTEE. THANK YOU ALLOW ME TO TESTIFY TO MY NAME IS BEN
RUST GENERAL COUNSEL FOR THE MINNESOTA GUNOWNERS CAUCUS. HAVE YOU
ALREADY HEARD SPIRIT BATTLE OF STATISTIC THE PERSONAL STORIES ABOUT THESE LAWS ACTUALLY AFFECT PEOPLE
ARE LOST. I'M HERE TODAY TO TELL YOU THE STORY OF MY CLIENT AND
FRIEND [INAUDIBLE] MOHAMMED. I
PRACTICE PRIMARILY
IN THE AREA OF WILLS; TRUSTS AND
PROBATE BUT DUE TO UNUSUAL TWIST AND
TURNS OUT BY MYSELF
DOING CONTRASTED
AS AN OUTGROWTH OF THE PRACTICE I START GETTING CALLS FROM PEOPLE TRY TO BUY GUN
AT A GUN SHOP AND
WERE DENIED AND THAT I CAN TO KNOW ABDUL
MOHAMMED. AS HIS
FRIENDS CALL CALL
THEM; ABDUL. ABDUL WAS BORN IN SOMALIA IN 1984.
THE RECALL FROM OUR CONVERSATION WE FIRST CAME TO THE UNITED
STATES BUT HE'S LIVED IN
ST. CLOUD OR MOVED TO ST. CLOUD IN 2000
AND BECAME A CITIZEN OF THE DATES IN JANUARY 2013.
REESE AND I KNOW THAT
IS BECAUSE IT APPEARS IN THE AFFIDAVIT OF IDENTITY THAT ARE PREPARED AND SUBMITTED TO THE FBI ON HIS BEHALF.
ABDUL TRY TO BUY GUN WAS FLAGGED AS A
PROHIBITED PERSON. THIS PRICE TO BECAUSE HE'S GONE THROUGH AN EXTENSIVE BACKGROUND CHECK TO BECOME A CITIZEN
HE'S A PERMIT TO CARRY A HANDGUN
IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA IS
ALSO LICENSED AS AN ARMED
SECURITY GUARD IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.
YET HE DID NOT PASS THE
BACKGROUND CHECK. THE
REASON ABDUL WANTED
LICENSE [INAUDIBLE] IN BLOOMINGTON.
AFTER HIS TRANSFER
WAS DENIED HE SPENT WEEKS GOING FROM LAWYER TO LAWYER
NONE OF THEM WERE ABLE TO HELP THEM. WE CAME
TO ME. HE AND I MET PROBABLY HALF DOZEN TIMES SAT MANY HOURS
GOING THROUGH THE RECORDS TO TRY AND GET HIS RECORD CLEARED
IT
INVOLVES GETTING CERTIFIED COURT RECORDS FOR
MULTIPLE STATES THAT WE WENT
THROUGH IT AND WERE ABLE TO
SUCCESSFULLY SUBMIT A APPEAL AND HIS AND I
WAS OVERTURNED THE DATE ON THE LETTER WAS JULY 11 FROM
THE FBI. BUT THAT'S NOT THE END OF ABDUL STORY BECAUSE
THE OVERTURNING OF THE DENIAL ONLY
APPLIES IF IT WAS DONE WITHIN
30 DAYS. ABDUL TRIED TO
BUY HIS ON APRIL 30 SO TO GO BACK TO A GUN SHOP
AND START ALL OVER AGAIN AND
SURE ENOUGH THE SECOND ATTEMPT TO BUY A GUN
HE WAS DENIED
YET AGAIN AND SO WE HAD TO WAIT. HE WAS NOT ABLE
TO ACTUALLY OBTAIN A GUN UNTIL
UNTIL JULY 28; 2017.
ON AUGUST 5 OF 2017 [INAUDIBLE] WAS BOMBED
AND I'M NOT HERE TO TELL YOU THAT MY CLIENT WOULD'VE PREVENTED THAT BOMBING
IF HE HAD A GUN WAS PROVIDING
ON SECURITY RATHER I MENTION THAT BOMBING TO SHOW THERE IS
AND WAS A REAL NEED FOR SECURITY
IN THEIR AND
THAT THE MANSON READY TO PROVIDE THAT SECURITY COULD OBTAIN A FARM TO DO IT
BECAUSE HE DID NOT PASS A
BACKGROUND CHECK. UNDER CURRENT LAW IN
MINNESOTA ABDUL COULD'VE OBTAINED
A GUN WE BELIEVE THROUGH PRIVATE SALE.
UNIVERSAL BACK PROJECTS ARE ENACTED
HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO
DO THAT.
THE PROCESS IN ABDUL'S CASE HAVE BEEN RATHER QUICKLY STARTED THE QUICKER YOU TALK TO OTHER FARM ATTORNEYS THEY WILL TELL YOU THOSE PROCESSESTAKE TWO YEARS
IN FACT IT SAYS THAT RIGHT OF THE LETTER
ANOTHER [INAUDIBLE]
MUSCLE NAME RECEIVED FROM THE FBI.
THAT'S A LONG TIME TO WAIT TO EXERCISE A
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT.
I DON'T THINK THAT IS FAIR.
AS YOU ARE CONSIDERING THIS BILL
I KNOW THERE'S A LOT
OF STATISTICS BUT I WOULD ASK
REMEMBER ABDUL THINK ABOUT HISTORIAN REMEMBER THIS
LAW AFFECTS ORDINARY PEOPLE.
THANK YOU. >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
DANIEL WARD. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR
THE RECORD. >> TESTIFIER: JANUARY. I'M
THE PRESIDENT AND DIRECTOR
OF MEMBERSHIP FOR
THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN OR DIGIT
GUN CLUB. HERE IN MINNESOTA.
I WOULD TO COME TODAY AND GIVE YOU A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.
WHEN LOOKING AT GUNS IN AMERICA A LOT OF US TEND TO LOOK AT GUNS
AND GUN CLUBS AS BEING PART
OF THE OLD WHITE ESTABLISHMENT. WE
AS MINORITIES AND PEOPLE
OF COLOR HAVE TRADITIONALLY
BEEN MARGINALIZED. WE HAVE BEEN PROHIBITED FROM BEING ABLE
TO HAVE IS THE BASIC RIGHT
OF BEING ABLE TO PROTECT OUR HOMES
AND PROTECT
OUR FAMILIES. GUN LAWS GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE
EARLY 1600S AND LAW AFTER LAW
AFTER LAW AFTER LAW
AFTER LAW HAS
BEEN PASSED THAT HAS BASICALLY ERODED AWAY NOT ONLY
OUR RIGHTS BUT EVERYONE ELSE'
S RIGHTS WE ARE THE ONES THAT GET AFFECTED THE MOST. WE
TYPICALLY LIVE IN COMMUNITIES WHERE
THE POLICE OVER POLICE WE
ARE PROFILED WE LIVE IN
SUBSTANDARD HOUSING. WE CAN
FIND EMPLOYMENT. WE JUST HAVE
MEMBERS FROM ANOTHER AGENCY
THAT TALKED ABOUT THE
NUMBER OF BEDS AND FACILITIES AND IT'S
A PROBLEM THAT EXISTS
THAT'S NOT GOING TO
GO AWAY. SO; IF YOU LOOK AT THIS TOTAL UNIVERSAL
BACKGROUND CHECK; I WANT YOU TO
THINK ABOUT
THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO HURT THE WORST.
YOUR TALK ABOUT
SINGLE MOMS YOUR TALK ABOUT VERY LOW
INCOME INDIVIDUALS. I DON'T KNOW OF ANY
GUN STORE THAT'S WITHIN THE
CITY LIMITS OF ST. PAUL
OR MINNEAPOLIS THOSE OF ALL BEEN REZONED OUT OF THE AREAS
. THE VAST MAJORITY OF MINORITIES
LIVE IN URBAN AREAS. NOT IN
RURAL MINNESOTA.
SO THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE ALSO MINNESOTANS AND CITIZENS THAT
PAY TAXES
; CITIZENS THAT LOVE THE STATES; CITIZENS THAT LOVE
THEIR CITIES; CITIZENS THAT AR
E LAW-ABIDING;NEED PROTECTION
AS WELL. IF I WANTED TO PURCHASE
A GUN IN THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS I CAN DO SO. I NEED TO GO OUT
TO
THE BURBS. IF I DON'T HAVE TRANSPORTATION
BECAUSE I'M DEPENDENT ON
PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION
A LOT OF PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION DOES
NOT GO TO LOCATIONS WHERE THE GUN
STORES ARE. SO AGAIN; I A
M MARGINALIZED. PROHIBITED FROM BEING ABLE TO DO THIS.
THEN; AS I READ THROUGH THIS
PARTICULAR BILL I'M LOOKING AT JUST WITHIN OUR OWN CLUB IF I WANTED TO
SELL A GUN TO A FELLOW
CLUB MEMBER; WHICH I HAVE
KNOWN; TRUSTEDONTO THE RANGE WITH;
SH
OT WITH; I'M NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THE PERSON'S GOING TO GO OUT AND COMMIT A CRIME
I KNOW THAT PERSON YOU I'VE A RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM.
OKAY? I HAVE TO THEN ASK THEM
TO SUBMIT TO A BACKGROUND CHECK. I ALREADY KNOW THE BE THERE ALREADY A LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN COULD
THEY'VE ALREADY SUBMITTED TO A
BACKGROUND CHECK. SO I AM BEING REQUIRED TO DO
IT AGAIN JUST TO
SELL AGAIN TO ONE OF MY FRIENDS THAT I GO SHOOT WITH
? THAT MAKES NO SENSE
TO ME. LOOKING AT
LOOKING AT LINE 314; TALKS ABOUT ON CHECKS BY A
FEDERALLY LICENSED
FIREARM DEALER. THE TRANSFEREE
SHALL APPEAR JOINTLY BEFORE A FEDERAL LICENSE FARM DEALER WITH A
FIREARM AND THE OTHER PERSON THAT YOU WANT TO SELL IT TO.
IF I HAVE TO HOP ONTO A BUS
AND WE'RE GOING TO MEET SOMEWHERE AT A DEALER WITHOUT IN THE
BURBS LOGISTICALLY THAT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT IN ORDER
TO COORDINATE. SO; I WOULD
SAY THAT REALLY CONSIDER
SOME OF THE THINGS HERE; LOOK AT
THE PEOPLE THAT DON'T
HAVE ACCESS HOW ARE YOU
MAKING THIS MORE ANY HURDLE AND MORE OF A BURDEN
ON THEM.
THANK YOU. >> CHAIR JOHNSON: THANK YOU.
PROF. JOEL OLSON.
MR. OLSON YOU HAVE ABOUT THREE MINUTES.
>> TESTIFIER: WELL I WILL USE OF LESS THAN
THREE MINUTES SO THAT MS. KATE CAN HAVE A
FEW MOMENTS IF YOU DON'T WANT.
NEVERMIND. MY NAME IS
JOSEPH OLSON. I'M A PROFESSOR
OF LAW MITCHELL HIM IN LAW SCHOOL.
MODESTLY NAUGHTY
REPRESENTING THEM. I HAVE BEEN
REPRESENTING MINNESOTA'S SENSIBLE
GUN OWNERS AT THIS CAPITAL SINCE 1989.
THERE REALLY IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN. LET ME START OFF
WITH NO BACK
GROUND CHECK. CAN STOP AN EVIL MINE OR
REVEAL UNDIAGNOSED INSANITY SIMPLY
CAN HAPPEN.
UNIVERSAL BACK PROJECTS HAVE NOT STOPPED ANY MASS
PUBLIC SHOOTINGS IN THIS
CENTURY. SINCE 2000 EVERY ONE OF OUR MESH SHOOTERS OBTAIN
THEIR WEAPONS
WITHOUT USING LEGAL PRIVATE TRANSFERS.
ATTACK AT SAN BERNARDINO
IN CALIFORNIA THE SPEAKER BECAME A COLLEGE
IN OREGON;
OCCURRED IN STATES THAT ALREADY HAVE UNIVERSAL
BACKGROUND CHECKS. WHICH WOULD NOT HAVE MADE ANY
DIFFERENCE BECAUSE THOSE GUNS
WERE PURCHASED AS ALL OF THE GUNS THAT HAVE BEEN PURCHASED BY
THESE FOLKS WERE PURCHASED
THROUGH AN EVER FELT DEALER AND
WENT THROUGH
THE SPIRIT EVERYONE IS TRANSFERS.
THE GENTLEMAN
IN VIRGINIA TECH PAST. THE GENTLEMAN IN NORTHERN
ILLINOIS PAST THE
GENTLEMAN IN AURORA
CALIFORNIA PASSED. PERHAPS HE SHOULDN'T HAVE.
HIS PSYCHIATRIST WAS DITHERING AROUND BUT WHETHER SHE
SHOULD REPORT BUT SHE DID NOT GET
TO IT. BUT THE NEXT
CHECK EVERY ONE OF THEM WENT THROUGH
A CHECK. INDEED THERE IS MASS PUBLIC SHOOTINGS
IN EUROPE. RECORDED IN FRANCE; BELGIUM; NORWAY AND GERMANY WERE BACKGROUND CHECKS
MUCH MORE RIGID THAN OURS ARE ALREADY
IN PLACE.
THE ONLY ARGUMENT THAT EVEN SOME OF THE MEDIA HAVE
NOTICED IT. LAST YEAR ABC JOHN
PEARL ASKED THE SENATOR
FROM CONNECTICUT WHERE WE STILL FOCUSED ON THINGS THAT NOTHING
DO WITH MASSACRES WE ARE
RESPONDING TO? BECAUSE OF
COURSE THE
SOLUTION FOR A MASSACRE THAT'S TAKING
PLACE ANYWHERE IS TO HAVE A
GOOD GUY WITH A GUN THERE ABLE TO ACT
RIGHT NOW RIGHT THERE. BECAUSE
THAT'S WHAT IT TAKES.
THE US RESEARCH IN US HAS
SHOWN CONSOLING THERE'S NO EVIDENCE
THAT
BACKGROUNDS [INAUDIBLE] THE RESEARCH SIMPLY DOESN'T
SUPPORT IT
AT ALL. AS THE GENTLEMAN BEFORE
ME TESTIFIED; THERE'S INHERENT BIAS IN
THE SYSTEM
. I GUESS CULTURES WERE PEOPLE OF SIMILAR NAMES.
>> CHAIR JOHNSON: IF YOU WANT TO FINISH UP THE 50 MINUTES IS UP. >> TESTIFIER: SORRY ABOUT THAT.
94% OF DELAYS ARE RESOLVED IN
24 HOURS AND THE FEDS PROSECUTE
LESS THAN 100 PEOPLE A YEAR. THERE ARE BETTER WAYS OF DEALING WITH THIS
WE ALREADY HAVE
IN MINNESOTA BACKGROUND CHECK
SYSTEM THAT CHECKS THE PERSON; NOT
THE GUN. THE PERSON NOT TO TRANSFER
. IT IS THE PERSON WHO'S ALWAYS EVIL WHEN
SEEN PARTY. THANK YOU. >> CHAIR JOHNSON: THANK YOU.
REPRESENTATIVE BECKER-FINN >>
REPRESENTATIVE BECKER-FINN: THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. I WANT TO CLARIFY SOMETHING. BASED O THE
FIRST TESTIFIER;
MR. DOOR. I AM A
GUN OWNER AND YOU DO NOT SPEAK
FOR ME. SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR FOLKS TO REALIZE
WHEN WE QUOTE THE STATISTICS ABOUT HOW MANY MINNESOTANS ARE
GUN OWNERS THAT
EVEN THOUGH YOU CALL YOUR SO THE GUN
OWNERS CAUCUS;
BUT DOES NOT MEAN YOU SPOKEN TO HAVE A GUN OWNER IN
OUR STATE. BECAUSE
YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR ME. I'VE BEEN A
GUN OWNER SINCE I WAS 12
YEARS OLD. I'M ALSO A MOM. I
ALSO THINK THERE ARE THINGS WE
CAN DO AS WE
TALK ABOUT GOOD GUYS AND BAD GUYS; WELL THE CRIMINAL
BACKGROUND CHECKS ARE TO DETERMINE WHO THOSE
PEOPLE ARE THAT YOU MIGHT THINK OF AS
BAD GUYS.
I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT I THINK YOU SPOKE ABOUT SOME OF THE WAYS THAT WOULD BE MADE
THINGS DIFFICULT. THE BILL ACTUALLY CONTAINS QUITE
A FEW EXCLUSIONS
INCLUDING FOUR HUNTING AND TRAPPING; LAWFULLY
ORGANIZE SHOOTING SPORTS COMPETITIONS AND
SHOOTING RANGES. SO IT'S NOT QUITE AS
TACCONE AND AS IT
INITIALLY WAS MADE OUT TO
BE. FINALLY; I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT
BASED ON THE LAST SPEAKER THE MAJORITY
OF MASS SHOOTINGS AND SHOOTINGS IN GENERAL ARE
NOT PERPETRATED BY PEOPLE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS.
SO WE NEED TO STOP TALKING ABOUT
THIS PROBLEM IN
THAT WAY THERE ARE RED FLAGS TO
VIOLENT BEHAVIOR AND BEHAVIOR OF GUNS
MS.
RED FLAGS DON'T NATIONALLY HAVE TO DO WITH THE FOLKS W
HO ARE STRUGGLING WITH
MENTAL ILLNESS. >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
MR. STEWART >> TESTIFIER: MR. CHAIRMAN
REPRESENTATIVE BECKER-FINN YES I UNDERSTAND THAT NOT EVERYBODY MAY AGREE WITH US
BUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU AGREE WITH US WE DO BELIEVE THAT WE REPRESENT THE INTEREST OF EVERY GUN OWNER IN
THE STATE.
ON YOUR HEAVEN ON THE POINT ABOUT
THE HUNTING THERE ARE SOME
PROVISIONS FOR IF YOU WOULD IN THE BILL
IF YOU'RE IN THE PRESENCE OR
LAWFULLY ENGAGED FOR THIS BILL WOULD PREVENT ME FROM BEING ABLE TO LOAN
A FIREARM IT'S A FOR A WEEKEND
OR SEASON. THE LANGUAGE OF THE
BILL SAYS WHILE HUNTING
OR TRAPPING THAT SPECIFICALLY ENGAGE IN
THAT ACTIVITY.
IF THEY WERE TO TAKE IT HOME THERE'S NO LONGER HUNTING OR TRAPPING. THE LOAN WOULD
NOT APPLY. >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
REPRESENTATIVE BECKER-FINN >> REPRESENTATIVE BECKER-FINN: IT'S PATENTLY FALSE TO SAY THAT YOU SPEAK FOR EVERY GUN OWNER IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.
I'M TELLING YOU NOW AS A
GUN OWNER THAT
IS UNTRUE. SO WE NEED TO STOP SAYING THINGS THAT
ARE UNTRUE.
>> TESTIFIER: AGAIN I DO NOT SAY WE SPEAK FOR EVERY GUN OWNER I SAY WE REPRESENT THE INTEREST. YOU MAY DISAGREE THAT
WE REPRESENT YOUR INTEREST AND I BELIEVE WE DO.
WITH RESPECT. >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
REPRESENTATIVE FINN >>
REPRESENTATIVE BECKER-FINN: I'VE SPOKEN TO MANY
OTHER CONSTITUENTS;
FAMILY MEMBERS; PEOPLE THAT I WORK WITH
THOSE ARE NOT OUR INTEREST.
IT IS FALSE TO
SAY THAT. YOU CAN SAY YOU SPEAK FOR
YOUR ORGANIZATION BUT IT IS PATENTLY FALSE
AND UNTRUE TO SAY THAT YOU SPEAK FOR THE INTEREST OF ALL GUN OWNERS. YOU
DO NOT. >> CHAIR JOHNSON: HOW ABOUT
IF WE SETTLED TO AGREE TO DISAGREE
ON THIS. REPRESENTATIVE
DETTMER >>
REPRESENTATIVE DEHN: THANK YOU
MR. CHAIR. THE TESTIMONY IN SOME WAY WERE REASONABLE IN
SOME WAYS REALLY
REALLY OFFENSIVE. THE
EMERITUS PROFESSOR
SPOKE ABOUT THE MASS SHOOTINGS AND THOSE INDIVIDUALS
HAVE PASSED
BACKGROUND CHECKS. THERE ARE MANY MANY OTHER
PEOPLE THAT ARE SHOT AND KILLED
BY GUNS THAT HAVE
GOT THROUGH HAVING BEEN PURCHASED OF
PRIVATE SALES
HAVE BEEN PURCHASED THROUGH PRIVATE
GUN SHOWS HIM A IN
HENNEPIN COUNTY THE ADMINISTRATION BUILDING THE
COURTS BUILDING THE
INDIVIDUAL SHOT
BY SOMEONE THAT WAS ABLE TO OBTAIN A GUN THROUGH PRIVATE
GUN SHOW. A PRIVATE SALE IN
A COUNTRY. SO TO MAKE
THAT ACCUSATION IT WON'T STOP
INDIVIDUALS IS; I BELIEVE;
NOT TRUE. AND I'VE HEARD THE MANY ARGUMENTS WHILE SOMEONE
WAS AGO SOMEONE THEY WILL FIND
A WAY. IN THE CASE OF MASS
SHOOTINGS CLEARLY; GOOD GUYS WITH GUNS DON'T STOP THEM AT PARKLAND
THERE WAS A SCHOOL RESOURCE
OFFICER DEPUTY THAT NEVER WENT INTO
THE BUILDING AND THE OTHER
DEPUTIES THERE SO WHEN WE MAKE THESE ACCUSATIONS
A GOOD GUY WITH A GUN
WILL STOP THESE THINGS
FROM HAPPENING THAT AGAIN IS NOT TRUE. THE ARGUMENT
CAN BE MADE THAT WHILE WE
CAN NEVER REGULATE-WE
CAN NEVER DO THINGS TO RESTRICT PEOPLE
BECAUSE THEY'RE ALWAYS GOING TO
DO THAT AND I
WOULD AGREE. THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO
BE PEOPLE THAT WILL DO THAT. BUT
IF WE REDUCE THE ABILITY
OF INDIVIDUALS WHO SHOULDN'T
HAVE GUNS TO GET GUNS IT WILL
THEN REDUCE THE AMOUNT
OF PEOPLE THAT WE ARE SEEN TO SHOT
AND KILLED BY GUNS EVERY DAY.
SO REPRESENTATIVE PINTO I THINK THIS IS A GREAT BILL. I
WOULD HOPE THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO
MOVE IN THE DIRECTION
WHAT OTHER REASON MOST STATES
HAVE DONE COULD
ACTUALLY THINK THIS BILL DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH IT
STILL UP PEOPLE TO OBTAIN SEMI
AUTOMATIC WEAPONS; WEAPONS THAT HAVE PREDOMINANT BEEN USED IN
MASS SHOOTINGS. I'VE HEARD THE
ARGUMENTS THAT USE AR 15'S FOUR
HUNTING DEER
AND I WOULD SAY IF YOU'RE THAT BAD OF
A SHOT YOU CAN'T GET THEM INTO A THREE MAYBE SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO GET
YOUR LICENSE. >>
CHAIR JOHNSON: REPRESENTATIVE UGLEM >>
REPRESENTATIVE UGLEM: TANK YOU MR. CHAIR.
THERE'S BEEN GREAT ARGUMENTS ON
BOTH SIDES OF THIS BILL AND OBVIOUSLY
THE LINES ARE DRAWN BOTH WAYS HERE.
IT'S A COMPLICATED ISSUE AND THERE'S BEEN LOTS AND LOTS
OF DEBATE
. THERE'S-THERE ARE REAL GOOD REASONS ON
BOTH SIDES EITHER PASS THIS BILL OR NOT PASS THIS BILL.
THERE ALSO ARE OTHER BILLS MAKING THEIR WAY THROUGH THE
SYSTEM HERE IN THE HOUSE AND IN SENATE IN
THE SESSION AND I THINK
IT'S PRUDENT UPON THIS BODY THAT WE
LOOK AT ALL
THE BILLS THAT ARE COMING THROUGH BEFORE WE MAKE
A DECISION AND I JUST DON'T THINK
IT'S PRUDENT TO ACT
ON SOMETHING RIGHT NOW
REPRESENTATIVE PINTO. IT'S WELL-INTENTIONED BUT TO
DO SOMETHING AS BIG AND
AS HARD A DECISION IS THIS AND
15-20 MINUTES GIVES
ME PAUSE. SO THERE MR. CHAIR MAKE
A MOTION TO LAY THIS BILL ON
THE TABLE. >> CHAIR JOHNSON:
THERE'S BEEN A MOTION TO LAY THE BILL ON
THE TABLE.
>> REPRESENTATIVE DETTMER: I WOULD REQUEST A RECALL.
>> CHAIR JOHNSON: THE MOTION IS NOT AVAILABLE.
CALL THE ROLL PLEASE GO TO
>> STAFF: JOHNSON AYE LOAM OR
GENITALS NAY KENTON NAYCONCERT
ON TRAINING FRANKIE JENNY DID
ROSSELL AYE HOWE LUCERO AYE
NEWBERGER AYE O'NEILL NAY UGLEM
JENNA AYE WARD [INAUDIBLE]
THEIR LOSS [INAUDIBLE]
>> CHAIR JOHNSON: THERE ARE
NINE
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