first I want to thank you all for coming here this evening I do believe that when
we have this more people involved in meetings like this we get a better
product at the end so thank you all for coming I want to thank our planning
staff here for getting the word out so well with all the postcards that were
mailed out there is stuff on our website in the newspapers so forth it was really
good apparently it's worked we got a pretty good crowd here tonight for what
I understand we have similar crowds at the other meeting so far this year as
well so that is really good having said all
that what we are doing here we're looking at updating horizonal text that
hasn't been updated since 1965 so we're not changing any zoning we're just
updating the text so it's more easy to read so someone wants to look at it it's
not a lawyer and most of us aren't they can look at that and say this is what
what's happening this is where I can do if you're looking at buying property in
a certain area you can look on a table that's out up there say what can go and
you know at this particular property what what can't go so just be easier for
everyone to use you could still of course call the
county if you have any questions about any of those things
but this should make it much easier and we're updating this because also since
1965 things have changed businesses have
changed different use for property what has changed so that's why all this is
being done this is not changing any zoning anywhere in the
county right now this is just looking at the zoning text and updating it and with
that I'll step away Linda Eisenberg who's our chief of
planning Thank You Commissioner Frasier well welcome everyone it's nice to see
some familiar faces here in the crowd that have been to some of our other
meetings as commissioner Frasier said this is our fourth out of five meetings
we're having the same meetings and each of the Commissioner districts around the
county and that's really just more for geography so that way we can make sure
that we are conveniently located for where the citizens live slightly people
don't have to drive so far so each of the meetings has pretty much the exact
same format so the format for this evening is a brief presentation and
there will be time at the end of this presentation for a question and answer
session with staff and myself so I'm Linda Eisenberg I'm the acting director
of planning we have Mary Lane who I'm helped as one of the staff members that
helped to write the code revisions as well as clay black who's the beer chief
of development review and J Boyd who's our Zoning Administrator and then as you
can see around the room we have different stations and after the
presentation please feel free to come back here and look at maps this is a
smaller room than we've had in some of our other meeting locations so we had to
kind of utilize the space a little differently so please feel free to come
back and walk walk up here we tried to spread things out so people weren't
crammed into one location where this is Nokomis forties one of our staff members
she is sitting here at the zoning code table of uses we have it on a poster as
well as in the books there all of this information that you're seeing here
tonight is also available on our website under Kara rezoning dot org there's also
a picture example of different square footages and what they represent that
helps illustrate the use table and the commercial industrial districts a little
more descriptively in the back Jenna is signing people in for the email which is
through Carol Connect so what we are doing is mailing out
postcards but there won't be any additional mailings for this effort
Carol connect and Carol rezoning org is your one-stop shop for updates to what
we're working on and we'll keep that website up to date our co and the back
is doing website information so if you can't find something on the website
he'll be happy to help you navigate that as well as Bobbie Moser who's helping
them with the mapping and describing some of the maps and we'll be walking
around and then we have Darby Metcalf who is on the computer in the back as
well we have an interactive GIS map so he can type your address in and let you
know your currently zoned today and help you understand what your future land-use
that was proposed in the 24 master 2014 master plan is and then we have price
Wagner who is that our Lego station which is to help illustrate our book
requirements and setback requirements in the code so again welcome thank you for
coming so what are we doing here and what is zoning so zoning is a group
basically of rules that govern how land is utilized it's really for the health
safety and welfare was the initial thought process behind zoning
regulations way back in like the 1920s so zonings been around and is not unique
to Carroll County all jurisdictions in the state of Maryland have some type of
zoning regulation governing the utilization of land and so what is a
comprehensive rezoning and really what we are doing here is reviewing the
entire zoning code in a whole manner over the years as commissioner Frazier
said when this zoning code was developed in 1965 we haven't updated it
comprehensively at one time over the years we have done many amendments to
the zoning code and regulations and many times that those have been reactive
because issues have arisen over the years but not necessarily proactive so
we thought it was time with the adoption of the 2014 master plan that had some
recommendations in it to review the zoning code in its entirety so again as
we've said the current zoning code was developed in 1965 without any major
revision since I mean we've had many interpretations and variances of our
current code so again this was just to get a fresh look and see how many
variances for certain things are we processing does it make sense to maybe
update the code to reflect some of the changes and more modernization of
different industries and changing how uses are reflected in our use table and
again the master plan that was adopted in 2015 which was written in 2014
recommended some recommendations to review the zoning code and to take this
effort up and also to add an additional commercial district so currently our
code has two commercial districts so everything that you can do commercially
in Carroll County in the county not the municipalities can happen in two
districts our business neighborhood retail and our business general our
business neighborhood retail is your later intensity commercial districts and
your business in general is your higher intensity commercial districts so
everything that you can do from your small little corner mom-and-pop store to
your target happens in these two zoning districts so with the adoption of the
master plan it was thought maybe we should have a third district to better
target kind of some of the more middle middle of the ground uses so what is
happening with this new code revision is that the commercial low or c1 will have
the smaller less intense version of the business neighborhood retail then the C
2 which is the commercial medium will encompass the higher end of the business
neighborhood retail zoning district and the lower end of our more intense
business general and then the commercial 3 or commercial high would be really
reserved for those higher intensity commercial uses like Costco or BJ's or
Target as well as I'm some later industrial uses and currently our
current code we do have those pass-through of uses so even in this
code ac3 our commercial high can also have some lower and 10 sneak commercial
in it but it doesn't work the other way you can't put higher intensity
commercial in your lower intensity districts so as commissioner Frazier
stated with his intern action we're doing this rezoning in two
parts we're doing a text portion which is what we're reviewing now and then
following that will be a subsequent map revision portion and the text that we're
focusing on now because they've been speaking a lot about the commercial
industrial and the employment campus is focusing on those categories first so we
will have three commercial districts as they just stated commercial low medium
and high and then two industrial districts industrial light and
industrial heavy which reflect our current industrial that we have now
which is industrial restricted and industrial general and the industrial
restricted is the least intense or less intense of those two industrial
districts they're really just kind of changing the name and updating the uses
no major changes are going to happen in those industrial districts and then
after the text has been reviewed and forwarded to the Board of County
Commissioners and everything's adopted we will then move on to the math portion
so a little bit of how this is being developed and this is actually being
developed in-house by the assemblage of people that you see in this room here
County Planning staff development review the Zoning Administrator County
Attorney's Office and economic development have all been part of what
we're calling a concept team and the concept team is the drafting team for
these districts in general and we chose that concept team approach first of all
because the county employees and no Carroll County better than a consultant
would if a consultant were to come in they'd still have to work with us and we
have a very talented capable staff that do know how to review the code but
utilize it on a daily basis and can make these recommendations based on what
they've seen as they process plans as they look at zoning
different types of zoning approvals through Jai's offices only an
administrator so they understand some of the issues that have been coming forward
through them and these commercial industrial districts so then secondly we
have another group for this it's called the focus group and the focus group for
this effort the commercial industrial unemployment
campus effort have been comprised of technical experts in the field for
instance we worked with the Bar Association to have their legislative
review committee review some of the draft commercial industrial text to see
how how does this work do you have any issues what stands out to you we sent it
to the Carroll County Realtors Association they again have a
legislative body that reviews different legislation that comes out not only from
the county but also from the state they reviewed it to say hey is there anything
that you see particularly problematic we work with the local Chamber of Commerce
our Economic Development to say how do these commercial industrial districts
how do you feel they will positively or possibly adversely affect some of the
businesses in our community and so we receive feedback from them because they
are the technical experts for these districts and then next we have a field
verification there will be time for questions at the end yeah no place if
you wouldn't mind thank him and then we had a field verification group which
were staff we would go out and look at already zoned commercial and industrial
lands to see is there something that we've recommended that could be
adversely affecting a particular commercial or industrial property so
again just kind of doing that field work that due diligence on the ground so here
has been the workflow so again concept team which is our
in-house staff has developed the draft code then we had our stakeholder input
with the focus group and then we had so that's internal to to the county and
then through our Planning Commission who is a reviewing body of this text they
have reviewed the commercial and industrial proposal and they will be
making recommendations and now we're in the citizen outreach portion which has
been these five meetings that we've been having across the county so we want to
hear back from you I believe Jenna Hannah dr. you should have grabbed a
yellow comment card and a blue comment card so the yellow comment card
represents issues that you feel are important to address with the comb
the Industrial and the employment campus zoning district text the blue code is
the blue card is for the residential the agricultural and the conservation
districts which will be forthcoming and so what we're doing with both of these
for the commercial industrial we're taking this back to our in-house team to
say is there any comment that we've received regarding the text that we want
to make recommendations for our Planning Commission to address and also taking it
to our Planning Commission and then eventually the Board of County
Commissioners to say here are some comments that we've received from the
public for your consideration to have discussion to see if there's any changes
that they would like reflected from these comment cards into that draft code
and then to get ahead of the game what are your thoughts about the residential
the conservation and the AG districts what are the issues you'd like to see be
addressed with the text of the code and what are things that you like and maybe
dislike so we tried to give you ample room take more than one if you need it
and definitely we want to hear back from you you can bail them back in touch you
can scan them in and email them to us Jenna's collecting them tonight if you
were able to articulate your thoughts on this we definitely want to get these
cards back so that we can get good feedback from you the citizens and the
property owners as to our zoning code so we'll take em we'll bundle those
recommendations and our text recommendations for our board comes from
through our Planning and Zoning Commission which are public meetings and
they will discuss just as we're discussing here to make changes and
recommendations that are then forwarded to the Board of County Commissioners and
the county commissioners will review the text and they've seen the commercial
industrial employment campus text and they will take these comments and then
they will make recommendations and they will then go to adopt the new zoning
text so that's kind of the process that we're following and we'll follow the
same workflow as we move forward from these districts to the residential
districts and then to the agricultural and conservation districts so this is
just to show you on this is our internal tentative timeline for completion but
we're trying to stay on time with these this is very fluid and a lot can happen
to change this timing but during the month of February we're getting we're
having these five public outreach meetings and this will finish up next
week and Mount Airy so we're trying to keep on task and on target with the
meetings and moving this progression forward so as I said up next are the
residential districts and I would like to have some citizen participation with
the residential districts regarding this so if you would like to be a part of our
residential focus group please send a letter of intent to our office by March
first we would love to hear from you and like you to be a part of this but this
is an effort more than just writing down what you like and don't like about the
districts it would actually be for you to participate to sit with planning
staff and other staff from other agencies within the county and really
review what we're presenting in a timely manner to sit down and have meetings
with us so there is a time commitment that we'd like to see from whoever does
participate so I would encourage you all to definitely send letters in you can
also email us at Caribou zoning at CC g dot CA RR dot o-r-g with the subject
line residential focus group and we'll add your name to the list the idea is
we're going to take two citizen representatives from each Commissioner
District just so we have geographical representation as well as we can't be
inundated with a hundred different residential folks coming in but we
thought ten would be a good representation around the county of
people to participate in this effort so again for more information go to Carroll
rezoning dot org and with that our team here will field any questions that you
have if you can please come up to the microphone so that way we can hear you
and here everyone can hear your question and then we have microphones here so you
can be able to hear our responses as well alright thank you so much
good evening I have some questions I guess about the process and is that
overall schedule available anywhere for the public I mean we can make it
available it again it's very food it was our internal workflow that I'm sharing
with the public I mean you're more than welcome to to have it but I just it just
appears as though I mean we got this postcard in the mail which looks more
like a new circular advertisement flyer which to me I just pushed off to the
side I'd even look at unfortunately it's my
neighbors actually brought to my attention and then I got looking at the
maps and I was just in awe about the whole process and then I went to the
website in the website in my opinion is not really informative it's got a high
levels high level flow diagram on the website but then to get actually get to
the maps you actually have a link on the website that shows you go to an
interactive map you have to drill down two or three levels to actually get to
the map it's not readily available from the website and when you look at the
website there's no information about schedule it just says this is where we
are in the overall process but it does not give it any timeline at all in terms
of what the next steps are I'm wearing on two from here and I guess I find it
really interesting and I'm trying not to be critical but this find it really
interesting that there's information here about this residential focus group
I don't think that information is on the website either and it's just to have two
participants from each of the five different districts a total of five a
total of ten residents across the county that's I think the populations like 180
200 thousand people something like that that seems very miniscule and then also
you know when you talked about the focus group that actually reviewed the text I
didn't hear any mention at all in the original
revision modification the text they included any type of citizen input he
talked about technical experts and it sounds as though as you spoke about
those technical experts they all had a vested interest and actually further
development the county so my suggestions are that
you know this deadline I March first which is only I don't have two weeks
away that be extended and there actually be a lot more public communications
about the residential focus group on the website itself you should actually
publish the schedule and where we are in the overall schedule and where the next
steps are with actually modifying the map and then I guess the overall other
thing is you know this postcard I mean maybe it's a matter of you check the box
and you sent this postcard out all of us and hey yeah we did inform the citizens
of Carroll County but this postcard to me is not it didn't inform me and
actually it looks so pleasant and so appealing it looks like a new circular
quite honestly at my house I think I just put it off on the side because I
thought it was actually just some sort of sales circular that's my comments
thank you this is already done no matter what we say because of this postcard
that you've already done the text you've already done this you've already done
that it's done it's happened in Pennsylvania already too
and they've been to all these meetings and they still have things around their
home and all that they don't appreciate I had the same thing I had week we sat
at the computer and we had to dig and dig and dig to find any information any
information about what was going on how are we supposed to comment on this when
we don't have we don't know what you've done so far we don't know okay thank you
for your comments I you know we've provided what we thought was good
information on our website I do agree we will put that residential focus group
information on our website to invite more citizens we were reaching out to
those that were coming to the meetings but we will expand that reach so that is
Renia so thank you for your comment can you please go to the microphone if you
want mine just so we can all hear that would be great and this is also being
recorded so it'd be helpful for that recording thank you
I thought the card was fine I read it I looked at it I this is my first time
participating in something like this so I feel like it's time I'm let's say
we're four generations in Westminster now so and babies born being born all
time so I have a vested interest in in what's going to be happening in the
future of Carroll County so that's why I'm here okay my first question I have
lots of questions the first question is what have you learned so far from the
meetings that you've had so far has anything changed or have you gotten some
good feedback from the community that makes you think maybe we should look at
this or that or what's happened so far so I'm thinking that's a good question
so with regards to the text honestly we have not received a lot of text feedback
most of the feed that feedback we have received was really with regards to the
maps from the land-use plan um and that map that textbook the map will come
after the text so the idea is to look at the text look at the text from the
recommendations of the 2014 master plan those recommendations again were the use
table format to look at the limited uses of what we call pass-through uses so
uses that are allowed in the commercial districts being transferred over to the
industrial districts and vice versa so trying to really limit the amount of
that taking place for some of the things that we did in the use tables to kind of
clean clean the code up so to speak and again this used table format our
current zoning code it's it's a listed description of the uses that are allowed
so the table is alphabetical and makes it more user-friendly that what's
allowed in your commercial your commercial medium and commercial high
and then if there's additional steps you need to take for approvals for certain
things we do additional cross references to other parts of the code but we have
not received any real specific feedback to likes or dislikes or different things
that the citizens would like to see with those districts
um again we still have tonight's meeting and another meeting as well as you know
feedback that could come through via email all of that will be put together
and shared on our website with our Planning Commission and with the board
so you can see what we have received from those cards today okay so so I just
want to be sure that I'm thinking about this correctly so we've got Carroll
County and you've got the industrial sections zoning from 1965 on one map and
then on another map you have the proposed zoning for industrial for 2018
is that where we're not talking about the map portion so what will happen
after this text of all the commercial districts the industrial the employment
campus the residential the agriculture on the conservation district which will
probably be you know about a 12 processed or better to get through all
the text okay then we will have a comprehensive map rezoning process and
then we'll come back out again and have these meetings and have public hearing
and public comment and the map portion will tend to follow the master plan so
that's the map that we have back there all of the areas in the county except
2014 correct Matt okay so all of the areas on the map I'm except for the
municipalities fall under the county's Zoning Authority the towns have their
own zoning and land use 230 we don't own for the towns we don't process the plans
for the town's they are the on they're autonomous from the county so then what
will happen is we will look to review the map based on the changes recommended
in the master plan and that'll be a whole another process just because the
master plan is recommending a particularly an use change the county
doesn't need to though feel compelled to rezone everything in accordance with
that map that map was a 30 year look into the future of the direction that
the master plan was moving the county and as far as land use is considered but
then there will be another process for the map changes on the ground all right
and did the towns have to approve that each town approve no because they don't
it doesn't affect the towns however we do coordinate with the towns so when
this plan was being developed one of the things that we're compelled to do
actually by state law is to make sure our joining jurisdictions are aware of
the planning process that we're undertaking so we do send our plans to
the talents for their review so when we did the master plan and 2014 they did
review the master plan and gave us comments back as well as other state
agencies that we've coordinated with as well through the state Clearing House
review process so when we were out with the master plan we did get a lot of
comments and made a lot of changes based on some of the recommendations from
those bodies okay and then my last question is will we get to at the end
when where when it's all completed and we have something like that
that says this is the new revisions will we all get a chance to vote on it well
we all have a chance to put our last comments well absolutely the public will
definitely have an opportunity to have public comment but it's the Board of
County Commissioners that votes and adopts that map but we will have a
process for that as well where a maps will be available um you'll see who's
requesting what and you can follow if it was a recommendation from the master
plan and what's the Planning Commission recommendation and what the Board of
County Commissioners final decision was for those properties that are being
suggested for the comprehensive rezoning process but I will say every property in
some way is getting Riis owned because as we look through the zoning code
itself anyone in Carroll who's not a new municipality there will be changes even
if it's just the tabular change so there will be changes to the code okay all
right thank you you're welcome thank you
hi you say that the town's are autonomous in this is there any way that
the county can put anything into our zoning regs that could limit the impact
that our municipalities have on our residential neighborhoods I'm not sure
what you mean by that well if you are showing the town what you're doing they
should be showing you what they're doing and they should jive not be one autonomy
from the other I would think that you would want to work in concert not
everybody doing their own thing however the municipalities are starting
to stretch out into our county neighborhoods and we as County residents
don't have any leverage Authority whatever to stop those encroachments I'm
asking if since you're revisiting the text that you could possibly consider
giving the citizens of the county who are not within the town limits of our
eight municipalities some kind of
ability to be able to stop an encroachment into our neighborhoods so I
can give you an example real quick crossroad shopping center they want to
knock down the I'm sure Dennis is making some some faces they want to knock down
the Petsmart and the advanced autoparts they want to rebuild a Harris Teeter but
they have to put the Harris Teeter all the way back into our neighborhood my
front yard a few of our front yards our whole neighborhood will be affected by
it we have no recourse other than to go to
their meeting and say please don't do this
we already beat them at the Planning Commission they voted to deny the
rezoning but they're taking it to the City Council so now five people on the
City Council could have an impact on our property values in one small
neighborhood we're asking I'm asking is there a way to put some kind of language
in the county's code that would help protect County neighborhoods from
encroaching municipalities so not through the zoning process and that
would really be a board policy decision and given that the the towns are their
own well the county has the jurisdiction over them over the majority of the
zoning that goes on in the county regardless of where the municipalities
are I understand that each one has its own jurisdictional powers but they do
have to be somewhat considerate to the area around them so I would think when
you're revisiting the zoning there would be something that we as citizens of the
county would be able to do on a zoning level that would stop or be give us some
kind of ability to be able to stop encroachments and no there's not
not from there not from another not from another jurisdiction I mean a couple
things that we do do is when the towns have their annexations they are they
have to develop a municipal growth area so I think you can see on
the maps here all of the gray area there's two shades the darker colors the
actual corporate limits the later green area is the ultimate growth boundary for
the town so they can't annex outside of those limits and those are efforts that
they've done publicly that we've worked with them publicly on that unless they
annex roadbeds then they can do that yeah no but we can have an offline
conversation you're right but well you brought it up that's reason why I asked
so so that I'm just letting you know the process for you know annexation
municipal growth areas and how we do have conversations with the towns but
again they are autonomous we can't put something in our code that stops the
town from from doing something so we're not protected by from the towns in any
way shape or form we're being left wide open to have our property values tank by
a municipality that we don't live in so I appreciate your comments really this
is not the forum for those issues with the towns and again I'm sure if you call
in to the County Commissioners like to have a conversation with them they can
perhaps help you but this code and this forum is not the discussion I'm sorry if
not for that zoning is the zoning is what makes it all dive I understand what
you're saying but not for us for with the towns I'm sorry no yeah you do you
think I wanted to go back to your presentation or a quick where you
mentioned that as part of this focus group or so you reached out to existing
industrial and commercial areas businesses individuals to see how it
positively or you said adversely affect how this rezoning positively or
adversely affect these existing businesses have you also considered
reaching out to the property owners of residential or agricultural properties
to see how it potentially adversely affects them so the groups that we
selected Ninh let me I'm sorry I wasn't very clear on that I appreciate you
saying that so what we did was and again we do not we looked at the bodies
themselves of the Bar Association the Realtors
Association Chamber of Commerce and we had them select the best people and
their organization so we weren't showing deference to any particular person
rather just these broad organizations for the groups that they have within
their organization that typically do this type of reviews either for
different legislative within the county or the state that their body reviews we
did not consider residential specifically or agriculture specifically
for the commercial and the industrial and employment campus districts for for
these districts but we will be reaching out to them as I said when we move
through the text when we move to AG we will definitely be working with our
agricultural community in reviewing that district but we did not do that
for this effort okay but you have to see that industrial and commercial also
affects the surrounding agricultural and residential and vice versa so you're
basically saying you're not taking that into account that's not what we're
saying but I appreciate that that's how I'm sorry that you're taking it that way
the idea was to have them look at the code for how it affects their particular
industry or businesses and then more broadly beyond that I don't think the
code itself and if we're talking about map changes that's completely different
would would really adversely affect communities because we allow all of
these districts all of this is already happening in our code so if there's
something specific within the commercial and industrial employment campus
districts that you feel do negatively impact the residential in agriculture
please extend that comment to us through this outreach effort okay thanks
in addition I was I was I was I wanted a more broader idea of the motivation
behind this rezoning effort and just that is 40 45 50 years old that can't be
the only motivation if I look at Carroll County I I could be wrong but I think
the population is not necessarily growing I see you're closing schools
there's actually hearings about rezoning the schooling districts and so forth I
actually maybe or my kids may be affected by that but yet you're trying
to increase you of industrial and and commercial land
area within Carroll County and that's a little bit counterintuitive to me maybe
you can elaborate a little more on that so during the master plan process that
was one of the tenants that the Planning Commission and this body was charged
with was to look at additional opportunities for commerce for
commercial and industrial lands and in Carroll we have a lot of wonderful
agricultural lands and residential lands but we do have very limited commercial
industrial so that was one of the tenants that came out of the master plan
and part of that future land use discussion was to look at additional
opportunities when we sought out those additional opportunities and the
Planning Commission were making considerations they were looking for
areas that were along major roads and close proximity to our municipalities
and areas of population as well as future infrastructure so those are some
of the things that we're considered during that process so what well may be
true that the industrial and commercial space within Carroll County is limited
it's not fully utilized though and that information is available on your website
there's plenty of available commercial and industrial area that that's
currently not utilized so why the drive for even more but that could be an open
question it just doesn't make sense to me but if I may go back to what we
talked about earlier you said you there's different stages of the process
first you're looking at the code and rewriting that and then then we're going
to focus on the map next my big fear is that the text the code part of it is
going to set the stage for the map so whatever gets decided and written in in
the code will then drive how you can move around the map how you can rezone
how you can change that so if action is not taken right now all that while the
code is being written by the time we get to the map it's too late to make changes
that's my opinion and thank you for that and I will say that typically and the
process that we would be looking to follow is looking at that future land
use map that's in the back of the room it would be implemented very similarly
to that map and not everything on that map would have to be changed at the time
of the comprehensive map reason I think those are decisions that the
commissioners would be making as they move forward in this process to say are
all of these properties ripe and ready to move forward from maybe throwing
ideas to a future commercial industrial use and those decisions have not been
decided upon yet okay thank you thank you
do you mind going to the mic I think she was coming up next time we'd be happy to
hear okay why I wonder how much property you're talking about in terms of
industrial already zoned industrial that is otherwise unused or not designated
for use so I don't have a vacancy rate of our industrial land in front of me
but I'm sure we can if you have some additional specific questions we can
write those down I can get you the amount of acres that we already have
zoned industrial and with the vacancy rate is on those lands I don't have that
here is it owned by someone is it owned by
the county is it owned by is there a way to cull it out so you have some better
sense of how much you're reaching for I'm looking to to make more land
available for industrial development yes that net walk you don't know how much
that is I don't have that number in front of me but we can get that for you
and we can get for you what the future land use designations were that were
established in the master plan how many acres those are of additional land and I
know it's I think it's pretty much written out in the plan I'm sorry I'm
getting old and slow you don't you don't know how much industrial land you have
designated currently we do I just don't have that number in front you don't know
how much is unused or again we have those numbers I just don't have it in
front of me I'd be happy to get that information for you thank you the reason
why you have not gotten a whole lot of comments on the new proposed zoning
Texas because it's actually quite a lot of daunting material for people to pour
through everybody's going to need to take a step back and go through the 186
page master plan document the 40 some-odd page text changes to the
1:58 chapter and then go back into the existing zoning codes to see what's
current versus what's new I think in our table Muir doesn't have strikeout so you
can see pretty easily what was the additional tax right before right no I
got it I mean there's there are some other things in the existing text that I
do think should be addressed that aren't being addressed myself first
give us that comment I've put them in you know certain things like you know
the signage codes are fairly a little too open I think and I think that there
should be I guess additional provisions made for more green build practices and
even some provisions for light pollution with any of these new commercial
industrial zoning districts you know many of us remember years ago when the
again I'm speaking more so to the folks that lived in the more rural areas where
we are the Royal Farms came in and completely lit up our skies so and I
know that there are some dark sky initiatives that would be great to be
taken into effect I think that's really helpful to now so and I and I I
personally like have gone through some of these codes and I have a little bit
of an understanding of how codes works a lot of people don't and I know that with
some of these zoning meetings that happen monthly the zoning board is being
taken through some of these codes on a step-by-step basis is there an
opportunity for the public to be taken through what some of these zoning codes
are I mean like this forum is great but I mean zoning codes are kind of a weird
animal for people to read and to understand is there some sort of format
for folks to really get a better understanding of what the words here
mean I mean anyone is welcome to call us and come in and we'll be happy to sit
down with you individually to go over that text absolutely yeah so yeah I
think that probably the best thing is for everybody to start trying to take a
look at those those words and what they mean
I know I did some additional comments again knowing that text is coming before
math and I know for us on Reese Road we have a hard time not looking at that
gigantic purple and red blob that's at the corner of Reese witches and a lot of
that's actually the landfill a lot of that's the landfill but there's a big
chunk of it that's very close to what will be future residential and I know
that there's some provisions being made in this document for setback
requirements from residential for certain land uses in the industrial
doesn't look like there's certain setback requirements for the commercial
it was a little little fuzzy the way that that section was written but those
requirements are only for thank you those requirements are only for setbacks
for residential and AGG under three acres it doesn't include any AG over for
over three acres which there's people that will be living up against those
properties that aren't going to see the same buffers so personally I would like
to see AG included in any of those buffer zones as well as and that goes
back again to the comment that there were no residential or AG folks in the
focus group for the commercial and that was something that was probably wouldn't
caught or suggested that there be a better buffer between AG and well thank
you for your comments though thank you those are great I appreciate it
bluh I have kind of a process question
as far as the text parts concerned from what I hear
doesn't sound unreasonable if it's old clunky text and you're gonna make it
easier simpler you know does that doesn't concern me too much
of course the rezoning of existing land for new purposes that of course I think
it's the general concern so question how does the process work where if a
property is zoned to a new state then how does the process work where the
residents get input on how that property would be used it's one thing to say oh
now we're gonna take this property and turn it into industrial and it's
different because as you said that could be anything from something modest to
something significant just so how would that part happen one thing to say that
NIT but is that we're going to put in a Walmart are we putting in another world
Farms can you yes so obviously the master plan is kind of
the lay of the land a 30 for the 30 year horizon where do we see Carroll County
moving toward from a land-use perspective and kind of honing that in
is your zoning so you know some things Elaine use designation of commercial
though then you know it's going to most likely be rezone commercial light would
be that the applicable zoning category and that still has a variety of uses
that you can allow in that and so then when you move to the next phase we can't
dictate okay on this c1 you can't you can put a small grocery store but you
can put your Royal Farms and so there's no certainty so you have to contemplate
that commercial district for all the variety of uses that are allowed on it
and when we rezone a property from let's say you know add to that commercial
district the property would be posted obviously we would be in this process
during that time so people would be made aware and joiners would be received
receive letters about what's happening with that property and then after that
property is rezone to that low-intensity commercial project comes forward that
has an actual development proposal on it then through our development review
process Klee and his team post the site there's public comment period they send
out letters to the adjoining properties and when Planning Commission meets and
approves those plans throughout the process the community is invited to come
in and give comments on that and clay correct me if I'm wrong with your
process regarding that but is there anything else they should know with the
development process about what would go on a particular piece of property and
how they can follow that what happens when the plan is submitted to us again
as Linda mentioned we'll post the property gets posted we send out
postcards to the adjoin heirs we also will have something on our
website development residential or commercial developments in process there
are several meetings that take place one is the first meeting is a technical
review committee meeting where the staff of the county reviews the plan and that
again is the opportunity for the public to speak if you can't make that meeting
and all you in what you want to do is send us comments we then will take those
comments or if you tend the meeting and it will be presented to the Planning
Commission with those comments but also what happens is you're at it to our list
of notification so if you send us a letter or if you send us mail and you
say you want to be notified of the project every time we get another
meeting we will send a notification out to the adjoining as to were having that
meeting and again the Planning Commission is the ultimate authority as
to whether or not the plan meets it gets the approval but in order to meet the
approval the county technical agencies review the plan and has come in
compliance with the code some of the code comments could be stormwater man
and ranch sediment and erosion control forestry landscaping Bureau utilities
Health Department those type of aspects
I guess the question to me is there's a it's done properly for project and the
person comes in with the project and says I want to put in an exon or
whatever it is and it meets all the criteria and there's own water and
setbacks and DNR and all that kind of stuff but the joining would really like
to not have an exon next to them I don't know how that how much weight that
carries if everything is all lined up and I's are dotted and T's are crossed
and meets all and it's zoned for that then I'd probably a pretty good chance
that the exons of going up is that fair to say and I'm just using that as a
crazy example because they're meeting all the requirements right or I
understand I understand that if be the the keep the key portion right up front
and you mentioned it is the zoning right if the zoning is there then what we look
at are the uses that is allowed and if you heard once that is allowed in that
district once it's allowed then the then the most
important part next is does it meet the technical code requirements if it meets
those technical code requirements then the project most like you will get
approved now if the residents don't want the project there may be there may be
things that can be done to additional landscaping additional fencing something
along that line that might be able to do to address some of the concerns however
again what was mentioned as you pointed out the zoning is in place so if the
zoning is in place that is the very first key stone you know the land the
land use sets it and the zoning comes very after so that is the most important
part of the development review process right up front okay thank you very much
hello others have some comments here is that I'm concerned with the land being
used it seems like Carroll County is a threshold of being over developed now
meaning that I don't think our resources can keep up with it if you go out on 140
and steal all the traffic on there I mean it's terrible matter of fact when I
first moved up here I mean you know you should roll the sidewalks up on Friday
night matter of fact basically then like you know and now it's become more like
living down Baltimore down in Bel Air Road or something like that then in that
case now so I'm really concerned with the code being written so allow more
industry in here that's actually gonna you know tax our resources you know
could be worse sewage and so forth in rows and conditions like that then and I
don't think that and once the code is written some of you already said a code
here you know it the code can be written to make it work for anybody who wants to
come in here if a company he's already talked to
Carroll County like you know some big corporation say and we wouldn't come in
here okay we can write the code that light and make it come in here they're
like that case and you know and that's why I got the feelings going on here to
be quite honest with you then you know is that you know I think the the meeting
you were saying about having a focus group here you know for decisions to do
that I think it's a great idea but I think we're coming in too late you know
I think actually came in when the process first started and then I'm
really concerned with the the land that it's gonna be used like the forums I
mean if you look by as I Drive around Carroll County matter of fact you see
farms getting eaten up all the time matter of fact there's just not there's
not they're you know they're not happy anymore like you know they're being
bought up maybe being developed for residential as well as commercial and
all I think the counties over growing right now and be quite honest with you
and I think by writing the code here and by simplifying the CUSO this way is more
understandable the old code hey that's perfect that's great they're like you
know but to redo his other portion here I think
we're getting our I don't think it's right
that's all our AG president is County is the best around
we have over 70,000 acres in Carroll County that's AG presence means their
farms out they will always be farms this year low and put 19 new properties of
adding press we take our money Carol Kenny's money to do that we give
these party owners money so they extinguish their development rights so
what's on me right now is going to stay on here we've got over 70,000 acres
right now but there also has to be balance we're putting 70,000 acres in
the goal it's 100,000 acres in the county and to AG pres we have to have
some development as well because the fact is the industrial and commercial
zones and professional commercial people that come in pay a lot more taxes than
the homeowners do we want to keep the tax rate lower are low and we haven't
raised taxes as I've been in order for me didn't raise taxes either that we
need additional commercial and industrial in here we
to have that if Carroll counties won't progress now the what we're doing right
now this text amendment of the code the zoning text redo it's a perfect place
for you to come in and ask all these questions because most of your questions
are on the map which we haven't got together so the questions are coming up
they're taking note of these questions before we get to the map for cinahl
we'll have a lot of information but because right now we're just there just
looking at redoing the code and updating that which is important first before the
math because most of the questions are concerning the map and a map is the next
step so you're in at the right spot you're eating that early as a matter of
fact and your questions and comments will we take it into consideration we
will they they will work worked on this and we try to you know make a balance
between what we need you for the commercial industrial residential
agriculture it has to be balanced we count and it's a tough balancing act but
we're doing our best to do that and groups like this where you come out of
house about a lot unfortunately it's hard to take to not look at the map and
a picture tells a thousand words and there's there's a thousand words that we
want to take away from what's allowed
right and to your point that the map that we're looking at is the master plan
was adopted in 2014 and that's like Luther said in a thirty-year vision
vision for the county I mean the master plan was thousand ten and fifteen years
before that all that was wasn't put into effect so we're talking about the map
and their land use and so forth if I was adopted a couple years ago most
of it hasn't taken place yet and we're going to look at all your comments
before any of that happens so I know it's hard time not to look at the map
but that's it the map is just a guy there's nothing written in stone on that
map right now there really isn't and I know everyone thinks all I know
government's going to do this and do that this is one of the reasons I got
into government by the way so things like that wouldn't happen and we're
trying to do our best to balance you know I can guarantee you that excuse me
can we also please just use the microphone this is being recorded so
that way people in the viewing audience can hear and then there's a gentleman in
the green shirt who is next but um - Commissioner Frazier's point -
yes this is a thirty year planning horizon and we review our plans by state
law every ten years so the plan is renewed and updated every ten years and
you know if we see the county is not moving in a certain direction that's the
time to reevaluate the master plan process and again so that is the cycle
please be involved even from that process it would be great to see people
see this see these plans through from cradle cradle to grave you know
essentially from the planning to now the implementation process gentlemen you so
you had a question the issues with the landfill the landfill one was
established back in 1982 originally to put on agricultural land was supposed to
have a thousand foot setback around the entire perimeter they applied for a
variance in 1982 and they were granted that the variance to move it down to to
a hundred feet I believe hundreds of fifty feet with exceptions in that and
just a few of them suppose a plan a buffer of trees around
the entire perimeter didn't happen or some places where it's natural but they
never did add those trees wells in the area will be monitored homeowners well
they're never monitored never never did
one of the things they cannot find or it cannot find that the use will cause a
decline in property value interfere with peaceful enjoyment of people in their
homes have undue odors noise or dust or create adverse impact in the
neighborhood some of the others there should be they're supposed to create a
citizens advisory committee for existing residents of the area to work with the
Citizens Advisory Committee on the plan and the facility its operation and
solution of any complaints or problems they were only supposed operating hours
that wouldn't affect traffic not during rush hour entire area supposedly fenced
and debris collected preventing from blowing into neighboring properties you
go down one forty and there's trash everywhere and the final note here is
the word notes that this approval is premise on the applicants assurances
that the facility will will be well managed and controlled and operated
without any real detriment to the surrounding neighborhood the board notes
that if this turns out not to be the case it is possible for a person to
request that the board revoke the approval so I understand landfills there
we're not going to get rid of it it's not gonna go away but since they've
opened they've added a blacktop crushing machine back in there which is creating
dust on our houses they have to stun ranges back there I mean all this is
prime examples where they abuse the brakes where humans all tie in here is
that if you're going to do zoning issues and generally one county has one
landfill per county how can there be a zoning
topic for a landfill when you want to change it to industrial which is only
going to give them more rights to add more things back there there's also some
tanks back there that are questionable move even though exam er what's being
stored back there sounds like it's a money-making event for the county why
don't we come up with a zoning classification for landfills that forces
them to do what they were supposed to do and just be a landfill put the text in
there for that well thank you for your comment I can't speak to how the
landfill developed and it's the county's landfill but we will take that into
consideration thank you I think the gentleman the blue shirt had a question
were you waiting or are there any other questions we do have time we're here
till 8:00 or later to walk around have specific questions about any of the maps
about one-on-one conversations we'd be happy to speak with you so thank you
again about the wells being tested where does one find those numbers of what the
results are I'm I don't know about the wells and the testing I'm sure that's
something we can look into the same in the same document it shows that back
then and there were concerns about the environmental impact to the reservoir
and you're just expanding the last meeting I had concerns about just
general egress and sure in the roads and that the zoning is done and then later
when the development occurs is when the studies are done which to me seems
backwards shouldn't studies be done before we change the zoning to an area
that we it's obvious gonna cause impact to that egress should we do the studies
to what it could do to the environment into the reservoir before you do the
zoning and and change the map I'm just confused can you explain to me why we
don't look at you know this is a bypass that's going to have to become a bypass
or have a bypass built for it we're not thinking ahead here
and I understand your comments and again you know when we do our master plans
would you look at traffic impacts but I can't say how a specific site will be
impacted by a certain use because we don't know what that uses yet at the
planning stage we do look at what a potential trip generation could be for
certain land use designations and then what their subsequent zoning would most
likely be but we can't make guarantees because we don't know what's going to be
developed on a particular piece of property until it develops and that's
when there's more specific traffic numbers and studies are done was there
an environmental impact study done before the mat was drawn or not again
environmental impact studies is a very detailed report so that's not done
during a land use component but we can see where that seems backwards am I
alone here is it backwards thank you for your comments I just thank
you
I feel like I'm hogging up all the time but I don't mean to so I have four
additional things that occurred to me as I was sitting there in the gentlemen up
here asked about how much commercial industrial land there is in Carroll
County if you go to the Carroll County website there's actually a drop down
page to the department economic development it's actually very very good
it actually shows all the properties are zoned for commercial industrial and
Carroll County it's actually an advertisement for the county for
companies to say hey come here to the county you know use our facilities build
our facilities and I did look at that website a couple weeks ago and I believe
there's actually thousands of acres of unused commercial industrial land in
Carroll County right now so I encourage everybody here to go take a look at the
website that's the first thing second thing is when you referred through the
map and you referred to the big purple dot down in the area of research and 140
you said that I think you might have said something that kind of conveyed to
me that oh that's the landfill well there's
actually hundreds of acres down there they're presently agricultural they're
not part of land ho and with this rezoning what's being proposed is the
rizona at the highest level of commercial the highest level industrial
and then their lower level industrial so that's going to have a tremendous impact
on that area and it's going to change the whole complexion of the area and
it's really to me it's changing the whole gateway into Carroll County as you
drive up 140 so just with reference to that so the dark purple is the landfill
property the lighter purple is your urine okay we'll double-check that and
but also this is not a zoning map this is a future land use map and what we are
saying that that is the direction during the time of the master plan that was
being considered for lanius categories again this is a 30-year planning horizon
at the time of rezoning those issues can be discussed in is it time is the timing
correct or the facilities there to rezone those properties so that takes me
to another point a random before I sat down when you go to the
Carroll County master plan on the website and you look through the master
plan you'll find actually in one of the maps that shows the West Minister area I
think it's actually on page 178 or 174 the hundred page like hundred eighty
page document or so the label on the map and I actually have it here on the third
it says proposed future land use you go around the room look at all these maps
and actually as I came into the room I spoke to a couple people from Planning
Department they said all that land is gonna be changed to commercial and
industrial in its future land use it's a done deal that's what's gonna happen and
the master plan it says proposed it doesn't say it's done but the way it's
actually being communicated it's a matter
okay well sometime between now and the next thirty years
it'll be zoned this way and it'll be used for these purposes so to me there's
a big communications gap in a mislabelling area error and I also just
believe that the whole thing is being misrepresented and then the third point
our last point I really want to make is and it goes back to the other
gentleman's point as you drew the map and you're real able the areas these are
in different levels how are the transportation facilities
being taken into account and how are the impact on the transportation corridors
and facilities that we have today are being taken into account as far as I
know and I did do some digging on the county website and also on a state
website there's actually no funding or very limited funding for additional
improvements to route 140 that was a question
and let me just restate my question my question is as you read through them is
there any maps and you come up with a new zoning proposals a new use for all
this land how our transportation facilities being taken into account and
the existing limitations on the transportation facilities so that's my
question okay so again as I stated earlier with
the master plan process we do look there is a transportation component in that
document do we do specific studies at the intersection of that road we did not
and again as I stated earlier earlier when an actual development I know it
doesn't seem forward-thinking but I don't know exactly what's going to be
put on any particular parcel so to do a study for each particular parcel is just
we can't do that until we know what a plan would be however as I said earlier
when we do have land use we do look at trip generation to see is it going to
add additional level of burden on a particular roadway beyond what it can be
capable of and 140 may seem like it is congested but it's not a failing road
it's it's a high level of service and I so so just yes you may so just some so
just some additional comments and observations about that is that the I've
been just excuse me Commissioner Fraser good I've been a Carroll County resident
for decades in that case there's been proposals with in Carroll County that
actually spend 795 up and actually connected up to Pennsylvania that's I've
taken off the map there was a proposal actually do the intersection at 140 and
91 and make an interchange so he wouldn't have that cog point there with
all the congestion occurred it was proposal for a Westminster bypass that
she was going to round west mr. an action connect Northwest Minister allow
people to bypass all the congestion in Westminster when route 140 was built it
was the bypass and all we've done is develop all the land along the bypass
there was a proposal probably 10 years ago to actually build an elevated
roadway that actually peel off at 97 and 140 on the
I guess you call it the west side of town and it was actually my elevated
roadway over top of 140 and dump you up off on the other side of town up by the
airport I don't think there's any funding that's not in plan anywhere as
far as I can tell and looking at the maps looking at the Carroll County
website looking at state of Maryland transportation plan there is no funding
available for any type of Road initiative to actually alleviate the
traffic on 140 and the changes that you're proposing are actually going
increased congestion I think I left one thing out at one point there was
actually proposal to build a service road parallel to 140 which would use
part of Old West Minister Pike I don't think that was on the plan very long it
was talked about and then it got shelved because there wasn't money for it so I
guess in closing I am just struggling to understand how you can draw them out
without taking impact on all the facilities and I heard Commissioner
Fraser earlier talked about how we have to maintain a balance but I guess what
I'm foreseeing and projecting in my opinion what will happen is we'll worry
develop this land for additional industrial commercial use companies will
come to build the facilities they'll be increased congestion then the county in
the residence of County wind up bearing a cost for the improvements that
necessary to actually alleviate the congestion 20 or 30 years in the future
when we have money to pay for it so I'm really concerned that with the rezoning
that transportation facilities aren't taken into account and I want I'm not
sure that there's any type of environmental impact study it being done
either and it sounds like there's not I'm sorry Commissioner for you so glad
you finished that of course I thought forgot I was gonna say but now as far as
like 140 97 and so forth 32:26 they're all state roads when I don't put blame
but let's talk about the last administration when they were in office
and in Annapolis their plan was to put their foot on a throat of Carroll County
and make us take mass transit therefore they have a sixth day there's a six year
book from the states it has projects in it out six years
Carroll County had nothing in that book because they wanted Carroll County to
take mass transit Carroll County didn't take mass transit
now with the new administration in place than Annapolis we're actually getting
some money some funding from the state now the only funny we're getting right
now is when they finish a project somewhere else they have leftover and
it's usually millions by the way they have leftover money they'll look at us
do where do we need help and they've they've actually given us some money for
it for those kind of things the things that you said about this was in the plan
that was in the plan the reason was taken out because the
last administration's didn't want us to have it simple as that we are working
with them now things are getting much better
I believe thirty to twenty six ninety seven 140 are now being looked at now
remember still six yearbook and right now we're getting something in the book
but it's gonna take at least six years for any that come to fruition but we're
working with them things will happen
I think what he's saying is we can't put any more we can't what I do more on
these roads I just all I want to say is because I have grandchildren and I have
kids and and they go on 97 on that road and you've got you know tractor trailers
you've got some eyes you've got everything on 97 and you've got school
buses trying to stop and pick up kids on the same Road so here you've got this
you know massive nor industrial thing and across the street is a school bus
trying to stop and pick up kids I mean it you know it's a safety issue I'm very
concerned there was a fatality on Stone Road in 97 that my son was on a school
bus and saw it all happen years ago probably like 15 years ago some of you
all might remember he he was it was a devastating experience for him the road
has only gotten worse so I guess I'm just imploring you all to consider not
adding any more businesses of really any kind to 97 at this point because it's
already too much and it's getting more and more difficult to to absorb and I'm
concerned I'm concerned for the safety of the children they just built that new
or move that new school they're on 97 in Stone Road and so there's even more
school schooling going on that road it's you know I want us to all be able to
live together and have all of these things happen but let's just be really
really smart and stop and think you know is this a safe thing to do is this a
wise thing to do you know I just really go slow thank you are there any other
comments about the zoning code text and then we'd like to move into the
one-on-one individual discussions
so there's no takers we're going to conclude this portion of our evening and
is it possible for you all to notify any property owner in writing when his
property is going to be affected by your change when we do the rezoning you will
absolutely be informed well before anything ever happens and how will you
inform us we will send a letter to you directly all right thank you
thank you for your comments this evening if you'd like to have some individual
discussions we'd be happy to entertain them
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