>> WELCOME BACK TO THE LINE TABLE.
LAST WEEK, STATE DISTRICT JUDGE NANCY FRANCHINI RULED
THAT RECORDS HELD BY THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO
FOUNDATION ARE SUBJECT TO THE INSPECTION OF PUBLIC
RECORDS ACT, ALSO KNOWN AS IPRA, AND MUST BE RELEASED
TO THE PUBLIC.
UNM HAD ARGUED THAT AS A FUND RAISING ARM OF THE
UNIVERSITY, IT WAS A PRIVATE NONPROFIT ENTITY AND DID NOT
HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THAT IPRA REQUEST.
CAROLYN, THIS REALLY WAS BROUGHT ABOUT IN THE WAKE OF
A PARTICULAR LAWSUIT THAT WE'LL GET TO IN A SECOND,
BUT SETTING ASIDE THE SPECIFICS OF THE CASE FOR A
SECOND, TRANSPARENCY ADVOCATES ARE REALLY LOVING
THIS, AND IT COULD HAVE IMPLICATIONS, ACTUALLY, FOR
OTHER UNIVERSITIES AND OTHER ENTITIES AROUND THE STATE.
WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON THIS?
>> WELL, I HOPE IT DOES.
I HOPE IT'S A DOMINO EFFECT, BECAUSE TO ME, IT WAS KIND
OF A NO-BRAINER.
>> IT SEEMED SO FROM DAY ONE, DIDN'T IT.
>> SO I WAS REALLY THRILLED JUST TO SEE THE COURTS BACK
THAT UP, AND HOPEFULLY THERE WILL BE A DOMINO EFFECT ALL
THE WAY DOWN.
>> IS THIS ONE OF THOSE BEHAVIOR CHANGING THINGS IN
YOUR VIEW?
TRANSPARENCY IS ALL WELL AND GOOD, BUT UNLESS IT CHANGES
BEHAVIOR, IT DOESN'T REALLY MEAN ANYTHING.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
SO IS THIS SOMETHING?
IS THIS A BIG ENOUGH DEAL THAT OTHER UNIVERSITIES ARE
GOING TO HAVE TO HUDDLE LITERALLY ON MONDAY MORNING
AND GO, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE NEED TO REALLY RETHINK OUR
DEAL HERE?
>> I MEAN, I DO THINK IT IS A GAME-CHANGER, YES, AND I
THINK THEY WILL HAVE TO RETHINK HOW THEY DO, AND THE
PEOPLE THAT SUPPORT THE NONPROFITS WILL HAVE TO TAKE
PAUSE.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
TOM, THE FOUNDATION HAD THIS COVER FOR A LONG TIME.
A LONG, LONG TIME.
AND A LOT OF FOLKS WERE NOT HAPPY ABOUT THIS.
WHAT'S YOUR SENSE OF IT NOW THAT THIS RULING HAS COME
DOWN?
PRETTY UNAMBIGUOUS.
IT'S NOT VERY GRAY HERE.
>> YES, I LOVE THE TERMINOLOGY OF IT.
IT'S A CREATURE OF THE UNIVERSITY.
AND TO YOUR QUESTION, YOU KNOW, IS THERE GOING TO BE A
CHANGE IN BEHAVIOR, WELL, I THINK PEOPLE ARE CREATURES
OF HABIT.
I THINK IT'S THE RIGHT RULING.
I THINK THAT THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO, AS ANY
UNIVERSITY DOES, LEVERAGES IT'S FOUNDATION TO MAKE THE
DEALS AND TO MAKE IT AND PROVIDE A NICE LITTLE TAX
HAVEN, AND AS A RESULT, THERE'S SOME TRANSPARENCY
THAT NEEDS TO GO ALONG WITH THAT, AS WELL.
THEY ARE NOT AN ISLAND TO THEMSELVES AS THEY PROVIDED
IN THE COURT DOCUMENTS.
THEY ARE ACTUALLY PART OF THE UNIVERSITY, AND I'M GLAD
THAT THIS RULING CAME OUT THE WAY THAT IT DID.
>> DEDE, MY SENSE OF IT IS, THIS IS GOING TO BE BETTER
FOR THE UNIVERSITY IN THE LONG RUN.
CLEARLY AT SOME POINT WE HAVE TO KNOW HOW THIS MONEY
IS MOVING AROUND.
>> WELL, PARTICULARLY WITH THE SCANDALS IN THE ATHLETIC
DEPARTMENT, WE NEED TO KNOW EXACTLY, AND THAT'S WHERE
THE CHALLENGE ORIGINATED.
WE HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT THAT.
BUT I'M THINKING IT WILL HAVE BIGGER IMPLICATIONS
THAN JUST THE FOUNDATION.
AND REMEMBER, EVERY STATE MUSEUM, EVERY UNIVERSITY HAS
A FOUNDATION, BUT THESE ARE STATE INSTITUTIONS.
THESE ARE, YOU KNOW, CREATURES OF THE STATE THAT
THEN CREATED OTHER CREATURES CALLED FOUNDATIONS.
BUT THE MORE THAT STATE GOVERNMENT, IN GENERAL,
OUTSOURCES THINGS -- THIS HAS BIGGER IMPLICATIONS, FOR
EXAMPLE, AND I WANT TO DISCLOSE THAT I'M ON THE FOG
BOARD WHICH FILED AN AMICUS BRIEF IN THIS CASE, AND
FILES AMICUS BRIEFS ON OTHER CASES.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE PRISONS OUTSOURCE THEIR HEALTH CARE
AND USE THE IDEA THAT THIS IS A PRIVATE COMPANY
PROVIDING HEALTH CARE TO THE PRISONERS AS A REASON THEY
SHOULD NOT BE TRANSPARENT.
SO THIS IS A LARGE AREA HERE THAT AS THERE'S MORE
PRIVATIZATION AND MORE OUTSOURCING, THERE ARE MORE
EXCUSES NOT TO BE TRANSPARENT, EVEN THOUGH
IT'S A PUBLIC SERVICE.
SO I THINK THIS RULING WILL HAVE BIG IMPLICATIONS, AND
IT WAS A SUMMARY JUDGMENT, TOO.
YOU KNOW, IT WASN'T EVEN GOING INTO THE DETAILS OF
THE CASE.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> SO I'M VERY PLEASED WITH JUDGE FRANCHINI, AND I HOPE
THAT THE UNIVERSITY WILL NOT APPEAL IT.
>> YOU KNOW, I TEASED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SUIT
ITSELF, DANIEL LIBIT, SOMEONE WE ALL KNOW FROM
NMFISHBOWL.com, HE'S DONE SOME WONDERFUL WORK, HE
FILED THE SUIT, HE HAS AN ATTORNEY THAT WENT WITH
THIS, AS WELL, AND TOM MADE THE GREAT QUOTE, IT'S A
CREATURE OF THE UNIVERSITY.
IT ALL SEEMS VERY CLEAR NOW THAT WE'RE READING ABOUT IT
AFTER THE FACT, ISN'T IT, THAT THIS FOUNDATION -- IF
YOU'RE MOVING MONEY AROUND IN THE BENEFIT OF THE
UNIVERSITY, AT SOME POINT WE HAVE TO KNOW HOW THAT MONEY
IS MOVING AROUND.
SO TALK ABOUT YOUR REPORTING AND MR.
LIBIT, AND HOW HE PULLED THIS ONE OFF.
>> I TALKED TO DANIEL NUMEROUS TIMES ABOUT THIS
AND MANY OTHER THINGS, ESPECIALLY HIS REPORTING,
BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO FOCUS ON WHAT HE WAS
TRYING TO GET AT WITH THIS RECORDS REQUEST.
IT WASN'T -- OF COURSE, IT WAS THE BIGGER PICTURE THAT
THEY'RE RAISING MONEY FOR THE UNIVERSITY, BUT IT WAS
LITERALLY THAT HE WANTED TO KNOW HOW THE PAYMENTS, OR IF
THE PAYMENTS WERE BEING MADE FROM THIS PRIVATE COMPANY TO
UNM, AND UNM SAID, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH
THIS GROUP, AND THAT GROUP SAID, WELL...
SO LITERALLY AS A PUBLIC, WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH MONEY
WAS PAID FROM WISE PIES TO THE ARENA AND WHETHER THEY
WERE LETTING THINGS GO.
>> HE ACTUALLY LOOKED INTO THAT $600,000 CHECK, BECAUSE
WE DON'T KNOW.
>> HE LOOKED INTO IT AND SAID EVERYTHING'S FINE, BUT
THEN HE STARTED FINDING THAT THERE'S PROBABLY A LOT OF
SUITES, OR PEOPLE THAT OWN SUITES -- OR NOT OWN, BUT
RENT SUITES FROM THE PIT, WHETHER THEY'RE PAYING THEIR
BILLS ON TIME.
THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE
UNIVERSITY BUDGETARY ISSUES.
ARE WE COLLECTING MONEY THAT WE SHOULD BE EASILY
COLLECTING?
>> THAT'S A GOOD POINT THERE.
CAROLYN, THIS IDEA THAT REPORTERS CAN STILL GET OUT
THERE AND MUCK IT UP WITH GIANT INSTITUTIONS LIKE
THIS, YOUR SENSE OF MR.
LIBIT AND HIS WORK HERE AND HOW HE SORT OF BROUGHT
THIS TO THE SURFACE.
BECAUSE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, HE'S REALLY STAYED WITH
THIS.
THIS HAS NOT BEEN A THREE-MONTH PROJECT, THIS
HAS BEEN AN ONGOING THING THAT HE'S JUST NOT GOING TO
LET GO OF.
>> YEAH, AND I THINK WE NEED THOSE RENEGADE JOURNALISTS
OUT THERE TO SORT OF SPEARHEAD THIS.
THAT'S WHAT HE IS, AND KUDOS TO HIM FOR DOING THIS.
IT'S A GREAT RULING.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK GARNETT STOKES IS THINKING RIGHT
NOW?
SHE'S WALKED INTO A MESS OUT HERE.
IT'S AMAZING, ISN'T IT?
MAYBE IT'S A GOOD THING FOR HER.
I MEAN, I WAS JUST KIDDING, BUT MAYBE IT'S A GOOD THING.
>> SHE COULD START OUT BEING VERY TRANSPARENT AND SHE
COULD START OUT SETTING THE TONE.
SHE COULD START OUT THAT WAY.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
THIS IDEA, AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THE POINT ANDY MADE, IT
WAS ABOUT THIS ONE SPECIFIC THING, BUT THEN IT KIND OF
BROADENED INTO THIS WHOLE IDEA OF TRANSPARENCY.
WE'VE GOT THE LOBO CLUB OUT THERE, WE'VE GOT LOTS OF
DIFFERENT WAYS WE CAN LOOK AT DIFFERENT THINGS AND HOW
MONEY WORKS.
BUT THERE CAN BE NO ARGUMENT, IF YOU'VE GOT
$600,000 OUT THERE ALLEGEDLY BEING PAID TO AN
INSTITUTION, AND NO ONE CAN REALLY SHOW WHETHER IT
ACTUALLY HAPPENED OR NOT, YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A CHANGE
AT SOME POINT IN YOUR CULTURE.
>> YEAH, AND BY FULL DISCLOSURE, MY COMPANY HAS
DONE WORK WITH WISE PIES AND ITS PARENT COMPANY,
SC3 INTERNATIONAL, AND I THINK THAT WHAT WE'VE SEEN
DEVELOP HERE IS JUST HOW A UNIVERSITY AND A FOUNDATION
REALLY HANG THEIR MAJOR DONORS OUT TO DRY.
SO I THINK THERE'S JUST A LOT OF CONFUSION BROUGHT
UPON ITSELF BY THE FOUNDATION AND CLAIMING THIS
DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY THAT I THINK WILL NOW GET CLEARED
UP, AND I BELIEVE THAT THE CANCELED CHECKS WILL APPEAR,
AND THAT THIS EVENT WILL KIND OF GO INTO THE ANNALS
OF HISTORY.
>> THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR TIME ON A FRIDAY NIGHT.
CAROLYN, YOU WERE GREAT.
HOPE TO SEE YOU BACK HERE.
THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US.
IF YOU WANT TO SHARE YOUR REACTIONS TO THIS WEEK'S
TOPICS, GET IN TOUCH WITH US HERE AT
NewMexicoInFocus.org.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
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