WELCOME TO THE LINE.
CITY OF SANTA FE IS CONSIDERING A PROPOSED CHANGE
TO IT'S PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCE STRUCTURE WHICH WOULD
LET PUBLICLY FINANCED CANDIDATES FOR CITY OFFICES
RAISE ADDITIONAL MONEY AND HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE A
DIFFERENT MEASURE CALLED DEMOCRACY DOLLARS WAS BROUGHT
THIS WEEK BEFORE THE BERNALILLO COUNTY COMMISSION
FOR THE SECOND TIME IN A MONTH, AND FOR THE SECOND TIME
IT WAS VOTED DOWN.
THE MEASURE WOULD HAVE PUT AN INITIATIVE ON THE NOVEMBER
BALLOT ASKING ALBUQUERQUE VOTERS TO DECIDE ON A VOUCHER
PROGRAM TO GIVE ADDITIONAL MONEY TO PUBLICLY FUNDED
MAYORAL AND CITY COUNCIL CANDIDATES.
TO TALK ABOUT THIS AND OTHER ISSUES, I AM JOINED BY THIS
WEEKS LINE OPINION PANELISTS, ATTORNEY SOPHIE MARTIN,
JEFFREY CANDELARIA, OWNER OF KONNECTION NOW, LLC AND HOST
OF THE JEFFREY CANDELARIA SHOW ON 770 KKOB AM.
>> DANIEL FOLEY IS HERE, FORMER HOUSE MINORITY WHIP AND
WELCOME BACK ADRIAN CARVER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF QUALITY
NEW MEXICO.
SANTA FE'S LAST MAYORAL ELECTION, MOST EXPENSIVE IN
THE CITY'S HISTORY CERTAINLY.
ALLEN WEBER PULLED IT OFF BY GETTING A LOT OF MONEY OUT
THERE FROM 25 STATES.
LOTS OF DOUGH OUT THERE.
I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, WHERE ARE WE NOW WITH THIS IDEA?
IS THIS THE SOLUTION TO YOU, LIMITING FOLKS OR INCREASING
FOLKS FOR 60,000 TO COMPETE AGAINST PEOPLE WHO CAN RAISE
THEIR OWN MONEY.
IS THIS THE ANSWER?
>> WHAT IS HAPPENING ALL ACROSS THE STATE IS EFFORTS TO
INCREASE PARTICIPATION IN ELECTIONS AND TO MAKE SURE
THAT EVERY-DAY PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO HAVE INFLUENCE OVER THE WAY
DECISIONS ARE MADE AT THE MUNICIPAL LEVEL.
AND PUBLIC FINANCING IS ALL ABOUT DOING THAT AND WHETHER
IT IS AT -- THE PROPOSAL THAT IS BEING MADE AT THE SANTA FE
LEVEL OR WHAT IS BEING HAPPENING IN ALBUQUERQUE, YOU
KNOW, THIS IS ALL ABOUT CHANGING THE DONOR CLASS AND
MAKING SURE EVERY-DAY NEW MEXICANS, WORKING PEOPLE,
PEOPLE WHO CAN'T WRITE THOSE 250-DOLLAR CHECKS OR 5,000
CHECKS TO THESE POLITICIANS TO PARTICIPATE IN THAT PART OF
THE POLITICAL PROCESS.
>> INTERESTINGLY HERE IT WOULD NOT DISALLOW PRIVATE MONEY AND
PAC MONEY.
DOES THAT END CIRCLING BACK TO THE SAME PLACE OR IS THIS THE
SOLUTION?
>> I DON'T KNOW.
I WANT TO COME BACK TO YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION HERE.
FOR ME IT IS ABOUT LEGISLATING EQUILIBRIUM AND I AM TOTALLY
AGAINST THAT.
>> DESCRIBE WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT.
>> I THINK IN THEORY IT MAKES SENSE, PUBLIC FINANCING,
PEOPLE GETTING MORE ENGAGED, WELCOMING THE AVERAGE CITIZEN
TO PARTICIPATE IN LOCAL ELECTIONS BUT WHEN YOU EXECUTE
THAT EFFORT, BY GIVING FOLKS VOUCHERS, TALKING ABOUT
DEMOCRACY AND DOLLARS, YOU'RE LEGISLATING EQUILIBRIUM.
YOU'RE TRYING TO MAINTAIN AN EQUAL PLAYING FIELD AND THERE
IS A CONTINGENCY OF SOCIALISM THERE.
I PICTURE ALEXANDER HAMILTON --
>> YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE CAP?
>> JUST THE EXECUTION AS I HAVE SEEN IT LAID OUT.
I AM NOT SURE HOW IF THESE VOUCHERS ARE PROVIDED TO THE
AVERAGE CITIZEN, HOW IS IT GOING TO BE TRACKED?
DISTRIBUTIONAL STEPS.
I COULD BE WRONG BUT I PICTURE ALEXANDER HAMILTON HAVING A
DISCUSSION WITH JAMES MADISON, ONE THE FEDERALIST SAYING WE
WANT MORE GOVERNMENT TO INTERVENE IN OUR LIVES, HE
WOULD SUPPORT PUBLIC FINANCING AND MADISON SAYING ABSOLUTELY
NOT.
I THINK IN THEORY, THERE ARE SOME MERITS BUT IN PRACTICE, I
DO HAVE CONCERNS.
>> YOU MENTIONED YOU REFERENCED IN PASSING THE
ALBUQUERQUE PORTION OF OUR CONSTITUTION.
WE'LL COME BACK IN A QUICK SECOND.
>> DANIEL, MAYORAL CANDIDATES WOULD GET 60,000, CITY COUNCIL
HOPEFULS, 15,000.
AND RAISING AS MUCH AS THEY WANT, THOUGH, FOR PRIVATE
CAMPAIGNS.
AGAIN, IS IT A COMPETITIVE FIELD.
IF YOU HAVE AN ALLEN WEBER ANOTHER PERSON THAT CAN RAISE
A LOT OF PRIVATE MONEY, IS IT ENOUGH TO COMBAT THAT.
>> CLEARLY IT IS NOT.
WHAT IS THE DOLLAR AMOUNT.
WE'LL ALWAYS BE CHASING THIS.
THE NEXT MAYOR RAISES A MILLION ARE WE GOING TO KEEP
RAISING IT.
IT IS INTERESTING THAT THE VERY FOLKS WHO OPPOSE SCHOOL
VOUCHERS AND GIVING KIDS CHOICE TO GET OUT OF BAD
SCHOOLS AND GO TO REAL SCHOOLS ARE NOW FOR VOUCHERS FOR
CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR OFFICE.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE PUREST
PARTS OF OUR DEMOCRACY.
YOU HAVE TO GO OUT, YOU HAVE TO SELL YOUR IDEAS TO PEOPLE,
YOU GOT TO GET PEOPLE TO HELP FINANCE, FUND YOU, VOTE FOR
YOU. AND WE CAN KEEP TRYING TO
MUDDY THE WATERS, GET $5 FROM ALL THESE PEOPLE.
WE HAVE SEEN HOW THAT WORKED, PEOPLE ARE ACCUSED OF
FALSIFYING THE $5, GIVING THEMSELVES THE $5, GETTING BIG
CHUNKS OF MONEY FROM INDIVIDUALS FOR THE $5.
AT THE END DAY, SAYING WE DON'T LIKE THE FACT YOU WERE
ABLE TO RAISE 100,000 AND THAT IS WHY YOU WON -- AND I ALSO
THINK THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, AND LIKE YOU
SAID WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED OFF, LETTING PEOPLE GET
INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS.
I TAKE OFFENSE TO THAT.
I SPENT TEN YEARS IN THE LEGISLATURE.
I NEVER LOOKED AT MY DONOR LIST.
PEOPLE WHO GAVE ME MORE MONEY DIDN'T HAVE MORE ACCESS THAN
PEOPLE WHO GAVE ME MONEY.
PEOPLE HAD ACCESS TO ME BASED ON IDEAS AND WE WORKED WITH
PEOPLE REGARDLESS OF WHAT PEOPLE GAVE US.
WE DIDN'T TELL PEOPLE NO.
THERE IS NOBODY IS MISSED ON THE FACT I WAS NOT A FAN OF
LABOR UNIONS AND LABOR UNIONS WERE NOT A FAN OF ME.
I ATTENDED EVERY NEA MEETING IN MY DISTRICT AND LISTENED TO
WHAT THEY HAD TO SAY AND THEY HAD SOME GOOD IDEAS.
AND CHAMPIONED SOME OF THEIR CAUSES AND WORK WITH THEM.
THIS IS LEADING TO THE WHOLE AVERAGE PERSON THINKING EVERY
POLITICIAN IS CORRUPT, EVERYBODY THAT RAISES MONEY IS
A BAD PERSON.
YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF YOUR IDEAS AREN'T
WINNING, THE ANSWER ISN'T TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THE
GOVERNMENT TO GIVE YOU MORE MONEY TO ADVANCE YOUR IDEAS.
>> SOPHIE, THE TWO FOR ONE MATCH IS AN INTERESTING
WRINKLE.
TOUCH ON THAT A LITTLE BIT.
>> I WAS ACTUALLY ABOUT TO BRING THAT UP.
THERE ARE TWO ELEMENTS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN DISCUSSED, THAT I
THINK ARE IMPORTANT IN THIS PROPOSAL.
ONE IS THAT WE KNOW THAT GENERALLY SPEAKING IF YOU GIVE
MONEY, YOU WILL VOTE, SO, THOSE SMALL DOLLAR DONATIONS
ARE REALLY IMPORTANT TO CANDIDATES BECAUSE THEY ARE
NOT JUST SAYING, I LIKE YOU, I LIKE YOUR IDEAS.
THEY ARE SAYING, AND I PUT MY MONEY OUT THERE AND I WILL
VOTE.
SO IT GIVES THE CANDIDATES AN OPPORTUNITY TO BRING MORE
PEOPLE INTO THAT EQUATION.
IT SOUNDS LIKE ANYONE CAN VOTE OF COURSE YOU CAN VOTE, BUT
THERE IS SOMETHING MAGICAL IN THE GIVING AND THE COMMITMENT
TO VOTE.
IT IS AN INTERESTING IDEA IN TERMS OF THE VOTE, GET OUT THE
VOTE IDEA.
THE OTHER THING WITH THE MATCH IT ALLOWS FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT
DISTINCTION AMONG CANDIDATES.
SO IF YOU HAVE A CANDIDATE WHO QUALIFIES FOR THE -- SORRY --
WHO QUALIFIES FOR PUBLIC FUNDING BUT ISN'T REALLY GOING
TO GET ANY FURTHER THAN THAT, AND YOU HAVE A PERSON WHO IS
ON FIRE AND WHO IS GOING TO GET A LOT OF SUPPORT AND WHO
POTENTIALLY COULD HAVE RAISED QUITE A BIT MORE, THE MATCH
ALLOWS THE FUNDING TO BE ADJUSTED IN ORDER TO REFLECT
YOU'RE A LIVE WIRE, YOU HAVE A REAL SHOT HERE, YOU NOT SO
MUCH, AND SO IT ALLOWS MORE MONEY TO COME INTO PUBLIC
FUNDING WITHOUT PUTTING IT IN PLACES WHERE PEOPLE MAYBE ARE
NOT GOING TO MAKE IT. AND I KNOW THAT IS HARSH, BUT
IT IS THE DONOR -- IT IS THE VOTER HO DECIDES THIS PERSON
IS SOMEBODY THAT I FEEL LIKE I CAN GET BEHIND.
>> I HAVE ONE MORE SANTA FE POINT AND WE'LL SWING TO
DEMOCRACY DOLLARS IN ALBUQUERQUE.
INTERESTINGLY YOU THINK ABOUT THE 2014 RACE THAT GONZALES
WON.
ALL THOSE PEOPLE THAT RAN FOR THAT SEAT TOOK PUBLIC FINANCE
MONEY BUT THE PAC MONEY THAT CAME FROM MR.
GONZALES WAS ENORMOUS AND WE HAVE A QUOTE
FROM A CO-SPONSOR OF THE BILL WHO SAYS THAT CHANGES IN
PUBLIC FINANCE WOULD CONTROL THE FLOW OF WHO IS GETTING IN,
IT IS ONE WAY TO DISSUADE PACS FROM FORMING, IS THAT NAIVE?
>> INSANE.
>> I DON'T THINK THAT IS CORRECT.
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, I DON'T THINK THAT IS CORRECT.
>> IT CREATES MORE DARK PACS.
YOU'RE PUTTING THEM DOWN THE ROAD, WHICH WE SEE NOW, THE
PARTIES HAVE BECOME COMPLETELY USELESS IN ELECTIONS NOW, BOTH
SIDES, BUT WHAT IS, THIRD PARTY EXPENDITURE, NOW THEY
ARE OFF THE CHARTS.
NOW YOU DON'T KNOW WHO IS SUPPORTING WHO.
YOU SEE A CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL AND IT IS CITIZENS FOR CLEAN
GOVERNMENT.
YOU GET TO WATCHING THE AD, ARE THEY FOR DRILLING OIL AND
GAS, NOT FOR DRILLING OIL AND GAS?
I AM CONFUSED.
>> I CAN'T IMAGINE A WORLD WHERE THE FOUNDING FATHERS
THAT YOU MENTIONED WOULD SUPPORT SOMETHING LIKE
CITIZENS UNITED.
SO WE HAVE TO STAND UP AGAINST THESE DEEP POCKETED DONOR WHO
COME IN AND FIGHT AGAINST THE INTERESTS.
>> I AM TROUBLED BY THAT, THE EVERY-DAY PEOPLE.
I FEEL IT IS FREE ENTERPRISE AND I TEND TO SIDE ON THAT
FREE ENTERPRISE SIDE OF THIS AND IF A PERSON DOESN'T HAVE A
MESSAGE WORTHY ENOUGH OF GARNERING ENOUGH FUNDING, LET
THE MARKET DETERMINE THAT, BUT I DO, ON THE OTHER HAND, THIS
ISN'T AN ABSOLUTE ISSUE FOR ME.
I DO, IN THEORY, RESPECT THE MERITS OF PUBLIC FINANCE,
ENGAGING YOUR CONSTITUENTS BECAUSE IF I WANT 25 BUCKS
FROM YOU, I HAVE TO ENGAGE WITH YOU, I HAVE TO HAVE
CONVERSATION.
>> WHAT PREVENTS YOU FROM GETTING 25 BUCKS FROM PEOPLE
TODAY.
I RAISED A BUNCH OF MONEY WITH 5 AND 10-DOLLAR DONORS.
>> SOME OF THE THEORETICAL POINTS THAT THAT SIDE MAKES,
PUBLIC FINANCING, MAKES SENSE, PRECLUDING OUT-OF-STATE MONEY,
ALL OF THAT, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, IF I AM A CANDIDATE AND
I GET MONEY FROM SOMEONE IN NEW YORK CITY BECAUSE THEY
BELIEVE IN A POLICY THAT COULD AFFECT THEM BASED ON BUSINESS,
WHY NOT.
>> DEMOCRACY DOLLARS, WHAT HAPPENED IN YOUR VIEW THAT
THIS WENT DOWN FOR A SECOND TIME?
SEEMS LIKE A REASONABLE APPROACH.
SEATTLE DOES IT.
WHAT HAPPENED HERE?
>> I THINK THERE IS NO SECRET THERE IS BAD ACTORS ON THE
COUNTY COMMISSION.
28,000 PEOPLE SIGNED THIS PETITION IN SUPPORT OF THE
INITIATIVE.
IT IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE AGAIN OF WELL CONNECTED PEOPLE WITH
DEEP POCKETS STANDING IN THE WAY OF CIVIC REFORM.
THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO SIGNED A PETITION ASKING FOR SOMETHING
TO CHANGE.
I THINK THE INITIATIVE IS ALL ABOUT CHANGING TURNOUT, MAKING
SURE THAT THE ABYSMAL TURNOUT, 30% IN THE PAST MAYORAL
ELECTION.
>> IF THAT.
>> TURNOUT DOESN'T REFLECT RACIAL AND INCOME DIVERSITY OF
THE CITY IN ALBUQUERQUE, 68% WHITE, ABOUT 68% OVER 50.
SO, AGAIN, THIS IS ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT WORKING
PEOPLE, EVERY-DAY PEOPLE HAVE A CHANCE TO PARTICIPATE.
>> ADRIAN MENTIONED 20,000 CONFIRMED THAT MEETS THE
THRESHOLD.
IT WILL BE ON THE BALLOT SINCE THE COMMISSION HAS KICKED IT
BACK.
I AM INTERESTED IN YOUR OPINION ABOUT THIS BECAUSE YOU
KNOW, AGAIN, IT SEEMS INTERESTING TO JUST GIVE
EVERYONE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE A 25-DOLLAR VOUCHER TO DO WITH
AS THEY WOULD.
FUNDAMENTALLY.
BUT WE HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE IDEA OF LOG ROLLING.
TALK ABOUT THAT IF YOU WILL.
>> THAT WAS A PROBLEMATIC ISSUE.
>> LOG ROLLING IS PERIODICALLY BROUGHT UP AS A CONCERN ABOUT
A PIECE OF REGULATION OR LAW, SO THE CONCERN IS THAT THE
SPONSORS HAVE PUT TOGETHER POPULAR AND UNPOPULAR,
POTENTIALLY POPULAR AND UNPOPULAR TRADITIONS TOGETHER
AND THAT THE HOPE IS THAT THE POPULAR PROVISIONS WILL PULL
THE UNPOPULAR ONES ALONG.
THE QUESTION IS HOW DISTINCT ARE THESE.
WE HAD AN EARLIER LOG ROLLING COMPLAINT FROM ATTORNEY PAT
DIVAS ON AN EARLIER ISSUE BEFORE THE COMMISSIONERS OR
CITY BUT THE JUDGE SAID THAT IS NOT WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT
HERE.
IT SEEMS LIKE A POPULAR WAY FOR OPPONENTS TO BASICALLY
SAY, WELL, IT IS NOT GOING TO GET THROUGH ANYWAY.
I AM CONCERNED ABOUT COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SAYING, WE DON'T
WANT TO ENACT ANYTHING THAT WE THINK IS SUBJECT TO A LEGAL
CHALLENGE, BECAUSE, LOOK, EVERYTHING IS SUSPECT TO LEGAL
CHALLENGE.
>> PICK UP ON THAT IF YOU WOULD.
PAT HAS DONE THIS BEFORE, AS SOPHIE MENTIONED, HE DID IT
AGAIN, IDEA OF LOG ROLLING, AND IT GAVE THE COMMISSION A
LITTLE WIGGLE ROOM TO GET OUT OF THIS, IT SEEMED TO ME.
DO YOU AGREE?
>> I THINK THE PROBLEM IS BACK TO KIND OF OUR BEGINNING
CONVERSATION.
PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO TELL YOU HOW THEY REALLY FEEL ABOUT
THINGS BECAUSE THERE IS ALL THIS BACKLASH.
20,000 PEOPLE IN BERNALILLO COUNTY, IT SOUNDS GREAT.
YOU GOT ALMOST A MILLION PEOPLE IN BERNALILLO COUNTY,
YOU KNOW, THEY MAKE IT SOUND LIKE, OH, THERE IS ONLY 50,000
PEOPLE LIVING IN THE COUNTY.
THERE IS ALMOST A MILLION PEOPLE IN BERNALILLO COUNTY.
SO, I MEAN, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE HAVE GOT A CRIME
PROBLEM THAT IS OUT OF CONTROL, WE HAVE GOT
BEHAVIORAL HEALTH PROBLEMS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.
WE TALK ABOUT ONE IN TAOS, BUT WE HAVE A HOMELESS PROBLEM IN
ALBUQUERQUE.
WE HAVE A SCHOOL PROBLEM IN ALBUQUERQUE.
AND SOMEHOW PEOPLE BELIEVE THE ANSWER IS TO NOW COME UP WITH
A $25 VOUCHER AND GIVE EVERY PERSON THAT IS ELIGIBLE TO
VOTE, THIS $25 VOUCHER SO WE CAN ALL SIT AROUND AND AT THE
END COUNT THE VOUCHERS AND SEE WHO GOT THE MOST VOUCHERS AND
WHO HAS MONEY.
IT IS CRAZY.
YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET YOUR IDEAS OUT THERE.
NOBODY IS STOPPING YOU IN A CITY RACE OR COUNTY COMMISSION
RACE AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE PEOPLE, THE CITY COUNCIL AND
COUNTY COMMISSION HAVE A GOOD GROUP OF FOLKS THAT MAKE UP
DIFFERENT ETHNICITIES WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.
THESE ARE ALL JUST RED HERRINGS.
IT IS PEOPLE WHO HAVE AN AGENDA THAT WANT TO SAY THEY
ARE DO-GOODERS AND FORCING THEIR AGENDA DOWN YOUR THROAT.
>> WE'LL LOOK AT HOW THE LOSS OF A TRI-COUNTY SERVICES
ORGANIZATION WILL AFFECT BEHAVIORAL HEALTHCARE IN THE
TAOS AREA.
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