- [Announcer] Funding for Election 2018 coverage
is provided in part by AARP, a non-profit,
non-partisan membership association,
88,000 strong, in North Dakota.
Creating real possibilities right here in North Dakota.
And by the members of Prairie Public.
(bright music)
- Welcome to Prairie Public and AARP North Dakota's
coverage of Election 2018, I'm Matt Olien.
Tonight, the debate for one of the seats
on North Dakota's Public Service Commission.
My guests tonight are current Public Service Commissioner,
Republican Brian Kroshus, and Democratic challenger,
from Washburn, North Dakota, Casey Buchmann.
Each candidate will have a one minute opening
and closing statement, in between we'll have
topics of discussion, based on a coin flip.
Casey Buchmann, you go first on your
one minute opening statement.
- Thanks, Matt and I want to thank Prairie Public
Broadcasting and double ARP for doing this debate.
I believe the PSC needs the ability to say no.
I believe that, as we introduce more infrastructure
to our pipelines and advance in that way
we need to be careful.
I do believe technology and our infrastructure
with our pipelines, as we develop them, can co-exist.
Also, I believe that broadband should be readily available,
as fast as it can be, in all areas of the state.
There's still some dead pockets,
even with telecommunications,
where we need to work with the private sector
in developing areas where, as we go further
and further into going off our regular telephones and stuff
and going into our cellphones, we need to make sure
that there are no dead areas in the area, Matt.
- OK, Brian Kroshus, one minute opening statement.
- Well, thank you, Matt, and thank you to the staff
at Prairie Public, as well as AARP,
for hosting tonight's debate.
And I want to especially thank the citizens
of North Dakota for the opportunity to serve,
for the past year and a half,
as one of your Public Service Commissioners.
When I joined the Public Service Commissioner,
I came with over 30 years of private sector
business experience and a lifetime of ag experience.
My priorities have been and continue to be
responsible infrastructure development,
affordable and reliable energy rates
and public safety, including programs
like our Pipeline Safety Program.
Ultimately, the Public Service Commission
is to follow the rule of law and reflect the values
and principles that North Dakota citizens have.
And I think we've been effective in that
but there's more work to do.
- OK, let's get right to the debate topics.
My first topic is what are your thoughts
on the future of wind farms and renewable fuels
in North Dakota and how this relates to
the existing coal industry, and what is the PSC's role
in regulating renewables and existing fuels?
Brian Kroshus, you'll start us off here.
- The role of the PSC, as mentioned,
is to follow the rule of law.
And to look at the facts and figures
that are a part of the record,
presented in any case, and to make sure
that we're interpreting that correctly.
There's a lot of back and forth that goes on
between any company that is looking to site a project,
whether it's a wind farm or whether
it's a gas generating plant, or a number of other things.
Really, though, we have to look at the rule of law.
We have to be consistent in our decision making process.
And really you have to be energy agnostic
when you're looking at different projects.
I think it's a valid concern in terms of what impact
this will have on our coal industry,
our lignite industry over the course of time.
But again, our role isn't to look at
a particular energy type, but to look at an application,
decide whether or not it meets the requirements
as set forth by the legislature,
and then to act accordingly and the project
will either be approved or not approved,
but it must meet the requirements
and that's always very, very important.
- OK, Casey Buchmann, response?
- As one who has worked, made my living
in the coal industry and fossil fuel industry,
I've been a union ironworker for 30 years,
I see the writing on the wall.
That when I've talked to people
who are my age and stuff who are in
the supervisory positions in coal plants and everything,
they, that eventually they'll become obsolete.
I'm not against it, but as we go further
into our wind and solar area,
we need to look at advancements.
Because sooner or later there will come times,
and especially in the coal country where I grew up,
that it'll become too costly, expensive to work,
the coal, to work electricity.
I also believe that as we go through there,
we need to look at every factor available to do that.
We need to advance our resources
and look at every possibility, as we look into
our renewables, and our coal industry.
There'll be coming a time, I mean I hate to say it
to people, but it's not going to happen right away.
People may think that I'm against
the coal industry, no, I'm not,
but I understand that we have to look forward.
If we don't keep looking forward into the future,
we'll be left lying in the dark.
- OK, Brian Kroshus, you want to comment on that,
kind of the coal versus renewable and thing going on?
- I think there a couple of elements at play.
One is social acceptance, there is definitely
a segment of the population that find renewables
very appealing and that's understandable.
Anything we can do to be good stewards of the environment,
but the coal industry is still making
some significant advances.
The EERC is doing wonderful work up in Grand Forks
on coal research, capturing the carbon and then
possibly re-utilizing that carbon in our oil fields.
So coal is an incredibly important part
of the North Dakota economy, it's our fifth largest
industrial segment and it contributes
over 3.5 billion dollars annually.
It's very, very important to our economy
and I do believe that there's a path forward
for our coal, for coal production in North Dakota.
There are mine mouth plants and as such
they're situated very well to be competitive
well into the future in my estimation.
- OK, last word on this topic, Casey Buchmann.
- Well, as we look into the future,
we have to realize that the coal industry
is like any industry in our country.
Eventually, they do fade out,
like Woolworth's or any big corporation
and we have to be ready for that.
We have to be ready with the renewable energy resources
that are available and as the technology improves
we will definitely have a cheaper, reliable source,
but right now, coal is a major player in our state.
I make a living from it and everything
and I have nothing against coal whatsoever.
But I see the future, and the future is
coal is definitely on a downhill slide.
Do I want it, then we have to be worried
about what we're going to do in coal country where I live,
where we can replace those jobs,
we have to be ready for that.
You know, in agriculture we can do that.
And there's going to be hemp,
industrial hemp on the farm bill.
And let us work towards that, getting something,
a hemp manufacturing plant, maybe in place
of one of these plants that's already in place.
- OK, let's move on to our second topic.
As you all know, the Governor has requested departments
to consider 10 percent budget cuts, including the PSC.
One thing that's been talked about is eliminating
the grain inspection program.
So my question for both of you, is that a good idea or not?
And where would you, if elected,
start cutting 10 percent in the PSC budget?
Casey Buchmann, you start.
- Well, in the beginning you said I was a Democrat.
And our party is made up of Democrats
and non-partisan leaguers and I'm a non-partisan leaguer.
And what the non-partisan league
has definitely stood for is when the price of grains
and the weight of grains back in the early 1900s
was mainly taken out of control,
so I don't think this is a really good thing to do at all.
I do believe this is what happened
when the Republicans in our state have led us
down this area and the venue that we're going.
There's mismanagement of areas that we have,
this has not been on the Democrats
or the non-partisan league,
it has to be on the people who have been in charge
of our state for the last 25 years
and that is the Republicans.
Why are we making their cuts, why are we doing that?
I don't think the grain or weights should be cut at all.
I do think that we should look at other ways to cut things.
But saying cut 10 percent across
the board, how did we get there?
It wasn't due to the non-partisan league
or the Democrats, it was due to the Republican Party.
- OK, Brian Kroshus, response?
- Whenever you have to cut 10 percent,
or the proposal is to cut 10 percent
and actually another three percent
in terms of contingency cuts, for the next biennium,
the budget that agencies are looking at,
you have to talk about some very difficult things
that personally, I don't like the idea
of cutting the grain licensing program.
I think it provides a safeguard,
not from a price standpoint, but assurances
that if something should happen to
that particular licensing facility
or that elevator, that producers aren't left
without adequate compensation.
So it's a safeguard, it's not a price driving mechanism,
I think that's important to differentiate.
But we went through and I'm actually
on the Commission obviously, as mentioned,
and we're going through a number of
different scenarios and it's not easy.
So you're looking at balancing services
with operating within our means
and I think it's a very good first step
in terms of evaluating the budget.
We'll see what the legislature comes up with
in terms of targets, but these aren't easy conversations
to have, but when you're in a leadership position
you have to take a look at the
different options that are on the table
and we looked at dozens and dozens of different options.
It's not an easy task but it's a part of the job
and we will figure out a way to get to the number
and again, we'll see where it lands
once we get into the session.
- Casey Buchmann, response?
- Yeah, it's not an easy conversation
for them to have, because the Republican Party
is responsible for what has happened.
There's no doubt who you can put the blame on
what has gone on in this state and why
we went from a flourishing state
in the black, into the red.
Yes, there are hard decisions to be made,
but how we got there is not because
one side was really doing their job,
as that one side wasn't doing their job.
And I intend to bring the public back
into the Public Service Commission.
- OK, Brian Kroshus, last word on this
and we'll move on to the next topic.
- Yeah, I think it's important that people know
that the state is well positioned financially.
Revenues are up, oil prices have increased
once again and no one could have foreseen
the price drop that we did on
the crude oil side of the equation.
We're seeing the same thing right now
in the agricultural sector in taxable,
sales related to ag will be down.
That's the reality, we're a commodity driven state,
and we have to adjust accordingly when
commodity prices swing up and when they swing down.
We're not in the red, we have to have
a balanced budget, that's a requirement.
It isn't, we can't operate in a deficit, that's,
and we have to have a balanced budget at the end of the day.
So I think we're taking the right steps
to address any potential shortfall
and this is really based not on projections,
which are looking very favorable from a revenue standpoint,
where we can continue to fund our priorities,
but more as if what happens if commodity prices soften
once again, are we adequately prepared?
And that's really what this is about.
And I think it's a very smart and it's
a responsible move that we need to take.
- OK, let's move to our next topic.
Given the track record with Dakota Access Pipeline
or the things that can be done differently
in the future, when siting these pipelines,
and could things have been done differently
looking back at DAPL and the controversy that ensued?
Brian Kroshus, you start us off on this one.
- I don't think there's any question,
whenever you look at any type of a project,
whether it's Dakota Access, or other projects
that we've sited and approved,
you can always look back and say, well,
if this had been a little bit differently.
I think communication is always key.
And I think everyone would acknowledge
that we can do a better job of communicating.
With that said, we have to realize that Dakota Access
was sited on private property.
It was lawfully sited, it was done correctly,
it's a state of the art pipeline,
and it's an incredibly important
infrastructure project for North Dakota.
It's improved the economics in the Bakken
by three to three and a half dollars per barrel
and here's one of the most important parts.
It has taken a number of trucks off the road
and you can't even begin to imagine
the impact that has, the positive impact on public safety,
when you get tanker trucks off the road
and you're moving crude by pipeline instead.
Think about who uses the roads,
kids going to and from school,
people going to and from work that live out
in the rural areas, families going to and from church.
So to be able to take more trucks off the road
as more infrastructure is put in place,
improve the economics of one of our
top industries in the state, the oil and gas industry,
incredibly important, but you always take away
some lessons to be learned and those
can be applied in the future.
- Casey Buchmann, response?
- Two years later and the Dakota Access Pipeline
is still a hot topic amongst many people,
amongst, even in people in the trades.
Sure, communications could have been better,
sure it could have been thought out
where it was feasible for all.
You know, I still don't understand why it was moved
from north of Bismarck to where it was at.
I mean, I do believe that the people
who were involved in the protest definitely had a right.
As a union man, I do believe that
protesting is part of our rights.
I also believe that, you know, what happened
and how it was handled by our state government
was the wrong way to do it,
especially when our governor, at that time,
declared it a state of emergency,
which then it turned it into a fiasco.
I hope that's a lesson well learned.
But I mainly just think that, yes,
it did help with the oil getting transferred,
but the communications, there were none thereof.
The public really wasn't informed, as far as I know,
and I plan on making the public well informed
and working with them, working with
the public as we go forward.
- Brian Kroshus, you want to add anything?
- I would just add that the Dakota Access Pipeline
is a state of the art pipeline.
It's an important piece of infrastructure
not only for North Dakota but for the United States
and it's one of those key elements
that helps push our country towards energy independence,
which is very important, not only from a cost standpoint
but knowing that we can produce our own energy
here at home and the fact that North Dakota
is playing a key role in that,
is I think very, very impressive.
And, you know, again, lessons learned absolutely
and we'll apply those in the future.
- And last word, Casey Buchmann.
- North Dakota, let it be a leader
amongst all states, that's what we need to do,
but let us lead with our people.
Let us make sure that the profit going out
from the pipeline really, that we get our fair share of it.
Let North Dakota and the people that live here
rejoice in the land that we live on.
We're an agricultural state first
and we've always got to remember that.
We always have to remember when we have,
when they speak of commodities in this state,
I think of agriculture.
I think of the land we live on,
the people who sow the land and, as for me,
a hunter, I think of other places to hunt and stuff.
So North Dakota, we have to think of
North Dakotans when we say North Dakota.
- OK, let's move on.
Our next question comes from our
co-sponsor, AARP of North Dakota.
As the energy industry continues to evolve,
more changes are anticipated as to
how energy is delivered and priced.
Some proposals recently could increase cost
to consumers, how would you, as members of the PSC,
make sure that consumers are paying fair rates?
Casey Buchmann, you go first.
- Well, recently what I've read and stuff
on the PSC board is that MDU and
Otter Tail are asking for a price increase.
But I thought in 2017 the President, in his tax bill,
had forgiven them a great big tax bill.
And I thought they were supposed to put that
to the people that they served.
I mean there's one instance where I would have to vote no,
because they've already got their tax break.
As we go forward, you know, it's one of those things,
I wish people would talk about something like
net metering in this state, where an individual
could actually put their own,
get their own personal touch into
the program of renewable energy.
And that metering, you don't hear about it,
not out of the PSC, not out of any co-op,
but I wish people would check into it.
It's basically a two way meter.
And yeah, it does cost a little bit on your part,
but you get to do your own part as an individual,
help out the economy and the environment.
- Brian Kroshus, response?
- We talk about reliable energy,
but reasonably priced energy,
whether it's electricity or gas,
to the home, is incredibly important
particularly for low income households,
where a two or a three dollar difference
per month means a lot.
And I understand that and that's something
that I've advocated for during the conversations
that we have with utility companies.
The recent TCJA, the Tax Cut and Jobs Act,
which was passed I believe on December 22nd,
introduced early November, is essentially
going to offset an increase on the recent rate case
that we had with MDU, that was closed last July, in 2017.
Nobody likes when rates go up and I'm very, very sensitive
to any type of a rate increase for reasons mentioned.
But at the same time, you have to look at
where some of those dollars go when the rates do go up.
For example, on a current case we're talking about
replacing aging gas line infrastructure,
distribution infrastructure.
And you have to take that into account
because public safety does come into play.
So reliable service, safe service is very important,
keeping increases to a minimum.
And one other thing I would add,
we asked all companies after the TCJA passed
to come back to us with what that will mean to consumers.
And with all of them it appears,
because we still have to get through the cases
and close the cases, that that will grant relief
to consumers in terms of the rates they pay.
So we're expecting this money,
and I personally expect the majority of this money
to go back to the consumer with perhaps
a small portion, a very small portion,
that might be put into infrastructure projects
that promote reliability and safety.
- OK, Casey Buchmann?
- People are still waiting.
I mean, waiting on that, my opponent said that he expects.
That has not been assured that that money
will go back on that, that's one thing
that we have to look at, he expects that to happen.
Whether or not it does, that's yet another question.
I just want people to realize that
they asked for an increase after a tax bill
that said that they'd give them all they wanted
and yet here we go, you know.
An increase is an increase no matter
how you look at it and they had to pass
something else to get that money back to them
that they're expected to pay.
Again, it's expected.
- OK, Brian Kroshus, last word on this topic.
- Sure, we have, these are very complex calculations.
To think that a TCJA, Tax Cut and Jobs Act can pass
and then that you can immediately turn around.
One thing I pride, I'm very proud of,
is the fact that we operate with a very limited staff,
significantly less than other states and they get it right.
So it's not always about speed,
we're moving as quickly as we can,
but we are making good progress
and I expect a settlement to be out,
on several of the cases, in the very near future.
And it's going to happen, it's not
a matter of if, it's going to happen.
And one other point, when you're looking at
all of the utility workers in the state,
the line workers, that work for the investor owned utilities
that we regulate, when you look at the employees
at these organizations, they expect
to make a little bit more as well.
So this all goes into how we factor in rates,
how we look at it, and the TCJA, again,
bringing some of that money,
or the majority of that money frankly
back to the consumer, it's happening
and I think we're doing very good work on that
and took the initiative to make sure that that would happen.
- OK, last topic, we've got about two minutes
before we get to closing statements and
very, very interesting question, simple question.
Oil and energy industries, more regulation,
less regulation, what do you think?
Brian Kroshus, you go first.
- I think you always have to have
a level of regulation, but you also want to make sure
that we're attracting companies
that want to do business in North Dakota.
Ultimately, we look at reasons why
we live in North Dakota, but we also talk about youth,
that tend to leave the state,
and we have to create opportunities for them.
So developing our natural resources
in a responsible way is critical.
Because it's not only about today
but it's about our future and how do we
create opportunities for our youth to stay,
work and raise their families in North Dakota?
We have a great opportunity ahead of us
and I believe you can balance the regulatory obligation
that companies must have, need to have,
to promote safe extraction of our resources,
to make sure we return the land
to as good or better condition
than when it was first utilized for oil development
or coal mining, whatever it might be, wind development.
We want to make sure that we're taking those steps
to make sure that we create an environment
where we're promoting growth in a responsible, sound way
and holding companies accountable.
- Casey Buchmann in for a response,
because we're getting short of time,
your response on regulation, less or more?
- Regulations are definitely needed.
You know, it's the land we live on, the air we breathe.
I'm a firm believer in history,
I'm a firm believer and when we look back at history
when we had less regulations, what has happened
to the land, the air, the water that we use?
We need these regulations.
To me, regulations mean life for everybody.
- OK, time for closing statements.
Brian Kroshus, you go first, one minute closing statement.
- Well, thank you again, Matt and Prairie Public
and AARP for the opportunity to be here
and thank you to the citizens of North Dakota.
These forums are very important,
you get to hear the issues, you get to hear
where the different candidates stand on the issues,
and I appreciate that opportunity to express my views.
We live in a fantastic state and we can
continue to develop our resources,
grow our economy and keep North Dakota healthy,
not just today but for years into the future.
It's important that we keep looking ahead,
making sure we're taking care of the present,
and again, I really appreciate the opportunity
to serve the citizens of the state
in my current role as your Public Service Commissioner.
- OK, Casey Buchmann?
- Matt, again, I'd also like to thank you
and Prairie Public for allowing us to debate,
hearing different sides.
You know, I'm an Art Link throwback.
I was born and raised in coal country.
I've seen what responsible leadership
working across the aisle has done
for our state, it's proof.
I grew up in a little town called Stanton
and it's right smack dab in the middle of coal country.
And until all that stuff came around
and Art Link and all his people,
he surrounded them, I mean there was,
they were just doing everything they wanted.
I truly believe that we do live in a great state,
but we also want to make sure that,
when this landscape is quiet again,
that we have done everything in our purpose.
You know, we live in a great state,
a great individual minded people we have here.
And again, I want to thank you,
I want to thank Brian, and I want to thank everybody
out there in North Dakota for giving me
an opportunity as I travel across here to meet you, thanks.
- Well, thanks to both of you for being here,
Casey Buchmann and Brian Kroshus.
I think this is an important debate
and it's good for the viewers and listeners
to hear from both candidates, I thank you for being here.
And I want to thank you, the viewers
and listeners for watching Prairie Public
and AARP North Dakota's coverage of Election 2018,
this Public Service Commission debate.
And remember, election day is November sixth,
we either vote on the sixth or do early voting, so long.
(bright music)
- [Announcer] Funding for Election 2018 coverage
is provided in part by AARP, a non-profit,
non-partisan membership association,
88,000 strong, in North Dakota.
Creating real possibilities right here in North Dakota.
And by the members of Prairie Public.
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