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Thank you for being here. This is the hard core, so I appreciate you this morning.

Last month, I spent a weekend in Binghamton, New York

with AFSCME leaders, visiting members in their homes. Our goal was to hear

what was on their minds, and talk about what's at stake in this challenging moment.

One of the union's sisters I met there told me how she describes the work that

public employees do in New York State: "We maintain civilization as you know it."

That's a powerful way of articulating the importance of public service.

Our union has made a commitment to shine a light on the incredible work

that school bus drivers, social workers, snow plow operators, parole officers, librarians, and

others do every day to serve their communities.

More than two years ago,

facing the prospect of a national right to work environment, we took a deep dive

into understanding AFSCME members' priorities and their connection to our union.

The lessons we learned from our research can be summed up in a single

phrase to describe public service workers: we never quit.

At the heart of our Never Quit initiative—that's right— we believe that every person working to

sustain their communities deserves respect. We show ours through action:

fighting to secure opportunity for current and future AFSCME members.

We negotiate better pay and benefits because all workers deserve respect, and

we organize because individuals who build power together win respect.

For more infomation >> Elissa McBride: "The Importance of Public Service" | AFL-CIO Convention 2017 | AFSCME Video - Duration: 1:53.

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Minnesotans React To Public Health Emergency Over Opioids - Duration: 2:54.

For more infomation >> Minnesotans React To Public Health Emergency Over Opioids - Duration: 2:54.

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Michael Flynn - Synthetic Biological Membrane | NASA Public Lecture | Science Lecture - Duration: 56:17.

Welcome to that 2016 NASA Ames summer series

To achieve human space exploration

envisioned by science fiction authors we must take into consideration life support requirements

When searching for habitable planets we look for liquid water

Water is key to life as we know it and for human space exploration

Today's presentation entitled synthetic biological membrane will be given by mr.. Michael Flynn

He is the principal investigator and lead for the water technology development laboratory here at NASA Ames Research Center and

Has over 26 27 years of experience?

Here in the Bachelors of Science at San Francisco State University in mechanical engineering

He has received numerous awards a few of our

two R&D 100 awards a Wright brothers medal an

Arch T. Caldwell merit award and

six NASA spotlight Awards

Please join me in welcoming Michael Flynn

Well, thank you for coming today

I'm gonna give a presentation today that deals with an area of research called life support

and it's really going to primarily focus on sort of advanced research areas in life support and sort of a new direction for

Enabling human exploration of space

So the objective of this primarily is to kind of put ideas into your heads ideas that you as individual researchers here at NASA

Might later on write proposals, and and do research and funding to enable those future missions to occur

So the first question is what is life support alright

So life support basically is a field of research that it addresses all

Aspects of keeping human beings alive in space the easy part of spaceflight is getting to space you get a big aluminum

Can you buy as much explosives as you? Can you get a match you light the match and boom you're in outer space

But now you've got to do something there

And if it's a human tended mission

That can be very complicated because you need to keep the human being alive all those systems that we take for granted on the earth

The ecosystems of biospheres that support us on earth don't exist in that aluminum can

So those functions need to be turned into devices into machines into small boxes

Loaded into the spacecraft and then operate to keep you alive in space

So the main objective of life support program is to keep the astronaut alive

It's always extremely embarrassing when the astronaut gets killed so we don't want to have any of that happening we want to provide an environment

That is entirely safe for spaceflight applications, and that sounds like a trivial task

But that actually is the most

important task of the life support system is it has to be robust and it cannot fail in a manner that allows the

human life to be taken

as part of the mission

The other part of it is to provide a habitable environment space flights extremely expensive to keep an astronaut in space

Costs a huge amount of money per hour and so providing an environment where they can be very very productive is

Key, we astronaut to work on average 12 16 hours a day

we try to get maximum work out of them because of the

Expense associated with having them in space

So it's not enough to have like a camping environment it has to be a high quality environment

The life-support system has to operate flawlessly be the behind the scenes we want to minimize the amount of maintenance

Associated with it and then the final and the most important part deals with cost we have the ability to send humans to Mars

Right now we have the ability to colonize Mars right now the technology does exist the problem is the price is too high?

With NASA has done several missions where we've costed out the entire process of going to Mars

And they average around four hundred billion dollars and Congress has told us that that is too much

We are not going to give you four hundred billion dollars to do this mission

You need to be under a hundred billion dollars and preferably around a half a billion dollar

So one of the objectives of life support is to reduce the cost of keeping human beings alive

So you can imagine if you have to bring water and air with you that's an extremely expensive proposition

So the ability to recycle things in sit you has a dramatic impact on the cost of conducting these missions

I'm sorry. I went the wrong way

So we know a lot about life support

We know a lot about keeping human beings alive and the reason we know so much about it is because we've been doing it

We've been doing it since at least

2009 and we've been doing it on the International Space Station the International Space Station is probably the most sustainable

Habitat ever developed by mankind if you subtract out all the environmental catastrophe

associated with launching it on the International Space Station

we recycle all the water so if you want to be an astronaut you better be prepared to drink your own urine because that's the

Only water that's available on the International Space Station in fact you better be prepared to drink the person sitting next to yous urine

Because that's the only water we also recycle the humidity condensate the breath the water and your breath that comes out

You know here on earth we talk about carbon sequestration and global warming

Well we do full carbon sequestration on the international space station. We remove all the carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere

We control around 400 ppm that carbon has turned into methane a fuel

We also have research looking at turning to Graffiti carbon

And we're starting work looking at turning into bio plastics

So we can make things like spare parts and things like that from the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere

The oxygen you breathe

That's come by you guess it

That's also coming from your urine as well

So we want to keep keep that urine theme going we purify the urine water the urine we turn it into water

And then we put into an oxygen jet raishin system where we split the oxygen into hydrogen and oxygen

And oxygen is what you breathe right, so it's if it's the International Space Station

It's like if you took a bunch of engineers

And you lock them in a room and told them we want the most sustainable system

You can possibly develop and money is no object you spend as much money on it as you possibly want

You'd end up with something like the International Space Station completely solar-powered

It's been operating since about 2009 so we have the benefit of having learned all the lessons

Associated with building and operating these systems and those lessons learned are key to providing direction for future

research in development of life-support systems for instance for the colonization

Exploration of Mars going to asteroids are going to other planets

So life support pretty simple you produce

Outputs waste water. You're in humidity condensate feces water you produce carbon dioxide

produce volatile organics you all smell pretty volatile organics

solid wastes and garbage and feces and heat and the objective of life support is to take all of those outputs and

Make them into the inputs right so you can think of it as a space a space suit a space station

On the earth, but the idea is that you have to close all the loops

And you have to balance the entire system from the standpoint of mass

So the only thing you have to put in is energy in order to keep something alive indefinitely

And when you look at that the biggest potential so this is a pie chart that shows

If you didn't do any recycling at all you just brought everything with you on a mission to Mars

What would be the relative mass and as you can see water is the huge?

Huge piece of the pie everything else is a much smaller piece of the pie

most of the missions that we've done in the past the the one I was referring to that was four hundred billion dollars assumed an

Open lose case assume that you brought all of your waste brought all your water with you

And then turned everything into waste, so they're very expensive from the standpoint of bringing these materials along with you

So this is the area that I primarily work in which is water because that's the big the big

Aspect of it's a big part of it

On the International Space Station, we have a very complicated system. I kind of went through a little bit

I'll go through it again with this diagram, but basically you have the crew

they're the center of whole system the crew are producing water in urine and

They're producing water and their breath it goes into the cabin atmosphere, and then they're also producing feces right now

We don't do anything with the feces, but we are working on projects for recycling feces as well

The humidity goes through a condensing heat

Exchanger where the water is removed and then the carbon dioxide is passed to a co2 removal system where the carbon dioxide is removed out

Of it the urine is sent to a urine recovery system where it's purified and then that purified water is combined with the condensate water

Into another piece of equipment that just makes it into drinking water make sure it's pure make sure it's sterile water

Some of that water goes back to our oxygen generation system

Where the hydrogen the oxygen is split the oxygen is provided back to the crew the hydrogen then is provided to the co2

Reduction system and is used to reduce the co2 into things like methane

Graphitic carbon or bio plastics if you want to go that far to do that

So like I said, we have a lot of experience. We've been operating the ISS water recycling system since 2009

Here's a picture of the rack

It's a double rack

You're looking at about five hundred million dollars worth of equipment

Right there on that system very very expensive piece of equipment and the reason for that is that?

Well this picture is not actually quite right the reason for that is this in microgravity

Right so that means that no technologies that we use on the ground actually work for this application

Almost every technology that utilize in this system was custom designed for microgravity

So for instance there are really no commercial pumps that work in microgravity with the exception maybe a peristaltic pumps

Sensors connected sensors things like that

They don't work in microgravity either almost all of the content of this piece of equipment had to be developed through research

Programs flight tested for microgravity application and then implement it and it's something you guys all can can equate

Relate to right I mean if I took a toilet

Bolted it to the ceiling in this room and then told you that's the bathroom. You got to use that toilet

You'd realize the problems associated with microgravity

Function water doesn't flow downhill all of the assumptions that we use in water recycling systems here tres really really don't apply when you start

Doing microgravity experiments with them

the other thing is that

The International Space Station's turned into this huge complicated machine. It's it's definitely the most

Complicated device that humankind has ever made and of that system the most complicated

Components are the life-support system

Not only the most complicated, but also the most dangerous components are the life-support system for instance

I talked about the water electrolyzer that makes oxygen it takes water it splits it into hydrogen and oxygen

When you have hydrogen and oxygen together you have what's called a bomb right and so that system is extremely dangerous

And it's enclosed in a Hastelloy explosion-proof

Container so that if it was to explode it couldn't take out the entire space station

The urine we want we don't want the urine to go bad

We don't want bacteria to grow into it decompose so we add a compound called chromic acid to it chromic acid is a strong

Carcinogen it's also extremely corrosive, and it turns that urine into the most hazardous fluid on the International Space Station

there's no other fluid that even comes close to us has it as that and then we

Purify it and let the astronauts drink it so it's kind of a crazy way of doing it

So one of the key things that we've learned from building the International Space Station is that we have this this real significant problem

Which is there's only 24 hours in a day?

Right so you can only do 24 hours a day worth of maintenance on the system

And so if your system gets really complex

And you need for instance 26 hours a day in order to maintain it you've created a significant problem

And that's where we are with the International Space Station that the maintenance requirements associated with this incredibly complex system

Are becoming extremely problematic becoming very difficult for us to keep up on all the maintenance requirements from them?

So this is one of the key lessons learned from this system, which is that?

Maintenance and repair of these mechanical devices and the International Space Station is a mechanical device

Has become a real significant problem for us, and if we're going to go to Mars

We're going to go on a Mars mission, which is like a two to three-year mission to Mars and back

We're not going to be able to do this kind of maintenance on ISS. We can bring equipment down to earth

It's in low-earth orbit. We can bring equipment down

We can repair it and we can return it on a Mars mission, and we can't do any of that

Any spare parts have to go along with the mission as primary payload, and they really drive the price up dramatically?

for these types of systems for mechanical systems NASA typically requires

Double or triple redundancy and that means you either need to have three pieces of equipment

Or you need to have spare parts in order to replace the key failing components three times remember

I talked about the price of these missions at around 400 billion dollars

We need to drive the price down to below 100 billion dollars

Well an easy low-hanging flute would be to develop systems that are so reliable that they don't need those kind of redundant systems

Right we could we could remove two to three billion dollars out of that price tag by taking that kind of an approach

All right now

we're not the only ones the I assess program is not the only ones that have observed this the

National Research Council has also

Published a report on this topic looking at the lessons learned from the International Space Station and basically came to the same

Conclusion that unless we make significant changes to the basic concept of how we do life-support, and how we support these missions

It's unlikely that we will ever get to where we need to get which is a cost effective

mission to travel and colonnades and colonize Mars

So let's talk about that for a second going to Mars, so let's say it's a three-year mission all right

That means that your system your life-support system has to function for three

Years with minimum maintenance and no failures because it's the life-support system fails on that mission

You lose the mission astronauts die on the mission the mission is lost right so it's a critical

function of the of the spacecraft is to have that function

now what we use right now are machines the international space station is is composed of a lot of different machines with pumps and

rotating devices that all function and and you all have an appreciation for

Reliability associated with machines that's similar the world you live in right

I mean you you all probably have cars or your parents have cars, and you know cars break down

Right, there's no guarantee when you get in that car and you want to drive somewhere that it's going to get you to that place

And you have a triple-a card too in case it breaks down you can stay at a hotel or something like that

But what if it wasn't the case so let me give you an example, I'm gonna give you an example through a proposition

Here's my proposition. I'm gonna buy everybody here a brand-new car

Any kind of car you want?

All right, it sounds like a pretty good deal so far right

But in return for that you have to do something for me. You have to drive that car

You have to drive it 24 hours a day seven days a week 365 days a year for the next three years

That's roughly what it would take for a Mars mission for a life support system to function on a Mars mission

You can't take it to the shop and have any maintenance done to it at all because on a Mars mission

There's no shop to go to to get meat and it's done on it, and if it breaks down

I'm gonna kill you okay?

So it sounded like a good deal, but not sounding so good anymore is it

Right and that's the problem with mechanical devices mechanical devices break down for a car to drive for three years

Continuously you'd be putting like 500,000 miles on it

And we all know there was no way your car is gonna drive for 500,000 miles without breaking down

It's just not gonna happen right so I have another proposition. Hopefully a better proposition for you. I'm still gonna get your car

Don't worry

you're all still gonna get your car and

in return for that you have to do something for me and what you have to do is you have to as a

Human being just simply stay alive for three years

right just stay alive I

Mean even if you've just recently diagnosed with cancer. You could probably eat that out three years, right?

That's the difference between machines and biological processes right the level of reliability is orders of

magnitude better for human beings average lifespan of a human being is about 65 70 years

The average life span of your car running continuously, it's about two years

Right why is this well it's obvious its evolution right you as a human being you have

over four billion years of evolution behind you four billion years of

Trying every different possibility in determining. What is the optimal solution to longevity?

For your particular species that you're in your car has what generously 150 years of evolution. That's the Industrial Revolution

Right so the level of refinement that has occurred in biological processes is order

magnitude better than what exists in mechanical

So if we can take the lessons learn from the biological process specifically the ATLA lessons learned from that

evolutionary process and apply it to the development of

life-support systems we can achieve much higher levels of reliability

All right, so what I need is I need a life support system. That's good for three years

Guaranteed will not break down

No maintenance required for it right. Hey el if I can do three years. I cap I do five years

Do five years I probably do ten years, and if I can do ten years

I can probably do twenty thirty years out of it, right

So with that proposition the question is is that is that at all possible or am I just?

You know chasing at chasing at stars here on this are there any examples

Of water recycling systems out there that have that kind of longevity are there any systems water recycling systems that are good for 80 years

No maintenance you never have to do any where thing with them, and they work perfectly for that period of time

Nobody knows of any

Trees you are all examples of water recycling systems so right answer

You are all examples of water recycling systems. I guess you guys are all planning on living for probably 80 years

Your small intestine takes everything you drink all of the water

separates out any bad bacteria viruses any

Contaminants allows the water to pass through and other things that are necessary for your body into your blood

There's no maintenance on your small intestine. There's no such thing as small intestine replacement surgery

You don't go into the shop to get it tuned up every once in a while

It just works incredibly reliably

And it works reliably because that evolutionary process has has driven at that and what it's taught us is that massively parallel

Systems and targeted regenerate are the key particularly for for water recycling and small intestine system

So there are two applications that were that we primarily look at one of them of course is a small intestine in the human body

The other one is a plant root zones. You know there there are there are trees in California that grow for thousands of years

They grow in dirt. I mean what kind of water recycling system

Can you pour dirt into and it's good not going to clog it up?

I mean there are none that that we've manufactured have that capability but plants have that capability you know to have extremely long lives

Live in an environment where they can't move no matter what happens

they have to adapt to it and

And survive through that and the key of course is the root zones the membranes that exist inside the root zones and the small intestine

The same thing the key to the functionality the key the reliability is the membranes that exist in your in your small intestine

All right

Now that process let's talk a little about the small intestine because it's a little more than just membranes that's going on there

There's also a technique called forward osmosis

It's it's really extremely important to how your body works, and how your small intestine works

And you guys have probably heard of for DAWs Moses. That's like biology one class in

High school you probably learned about it, but maybe you forgot about it

So I'm just going to give you a little bit of a tutorial on what forward osmosis is so you know you drink water

That goes into your small intestine on the other side of the small intestine is blood

Right and the water has to move from your intestine into the blood

Right way that works is because your blood has a higher osmotic potential than what you're drinking

That's why if you're ever lost at sea and a raft

They tell you don't drink salt water right because salt water has a higher osmotic potential than your blood

And so it'll cause the process to work backwards

You'll take the water out of your blood and it'll go into your small intestine, and then you'll become even more dehydrated

So what's this osmotic potential this this magic osmotic potential right? It's a water recycling system

That doesn't need any electricity or any pumps or anything it. Just kind of works right now

I'll give you an example of it so if I had a glass of water

I set the glass of water right here, and I filled it up with tap water

and then I took a shot glass of saltwater and carefully poured this shot glass of saltwater into the larger cup of fresh water and

Then just left it there. That's the kind of experiments

I like ones where you don't do anything you just go away have lunch come back later

I would no longer have a ball of salt water inside the fresh water anymore right it would evenly mix

And I just have salty water inside there right and that's driven by a process called entropy entropy guides

everything that occurs in the universe basically what it states is that it takes work to make order and

Then things naturally go from order to disorder and enter as a measurement of the rate at which they go from order to disorder

right so when you were guys were kids and your parents would scream and yell at you and tell you to go clean up your

Room and you would go clean up your room. They'd come back there a couple days later

We're mad at you saying you didn't clean up your room

You were right they were wrong you cannot keep a room clean is actually impossible

To keep a room clean

You can't do it

All right, so let's go back to my glass example now if I take my cup and I separate into halves

I put a membrane separating the cup into two halves on one on one side

I put fresh water on the other side

I put salt water and the membranes a special membrane the membrane will allow water to pass

But it will not allow salts or anything else to pass across it

It's basically your small intestine if I took your small intestine and glued it into a cup put water on one side

Salt water on the other side set it there left it there went to lunch came back two hours later

What would happen so entropy is real right can't change it half something has to happen here

Water all the fresh water will go from fresh water side of the cup over to the saltwater side of the cup

That's what's shown in this in this diagram

So we start off with tap water and salt water equal Heights

Membranes separating between the two of them let it sit for a while

Virtually all the fresh water is going to go and dilute out the salt water salt water is going to raise in height

Higher than the equal to the amount of water that passes across it

And that's a actually a way of measuring entropy

It's a very simple experiment to measure entropy and I joke about small intestines

But some of the earliest entropy tables and no any of you are engineers have worked with entropy tables before

We're actually

Generated that way because it's an easy experiment to do all you need is a ruler to measure the change in entropy and they did

In fact use small intestines calf intestines and things like that to run that experiment so very well known experiment

The other important part of this for does Moses concept is this membrane this little black line

Looks pretty simple when it's a little black line, but it actually turns out

It's a lot more complicated than that in your body your small intestine is made out of lipids

As a matter of fact you're made out of lipids your skin is lipids

All the membranes in your in your cells are lipids your small intestine is lipids

Lipids are naturally produced molecule

That's produced by mammalian cells and and other types of bacteria a lipid has two tails it has a head group

Hydrophilic head group that means that the head group likes to be in water, and it has a hydrophobic tail group

which means the tail group does not like to be in water a

Cousin of the lipid is the fatty acid fatty acid only has one tail group

It doesn't have two tail groups

But it does have a head as well and has a similar hydrophobic hydrophilic

characteristics these

Characteristics mean that if you look at this picture on the bottom here if I take a bunch of these

Molecules and put them into a cup of water

The head groups are going to face out and the tail group is going to face together because the tail groups don't want to be

In contact with water which means it's going to naturally form a lipid bilayer

Right and you're made of lipid bilayers your skin is a lipid bilayer your small intestines the lipid bilayer

The house the paint you put on your house is a lipid bilayer lipid bilayers are ubiquitous around you in

Products you buy and everything and you've all seen it you take a little bit of soap

Soaps made of lipids take a little soap put it on a glass of water

You'll see it spread out across the top of glass of water

It's making a lipid bilayer on it one of the great things about these and very important for your small intestine

Is that that if you rip that lipid bilayer open?

It's just going to reseal itself

It's going to grow it's going to regenerate itself in your body in your small

Intestines as its mammalian cells that are on the back side of a small intestine that hyper

Express lipids so the membrane itself is soaking in lipids and fatty acids as well fatty acids turn out to be extremely

Important as well so your small intestines of regenerative membrane

It's a membrane that when it gets damaged it can repair itself the fatty acids provide some

protection to it so it means when you eat something consume something if it forms a solid that's going to stick to the membrane

It's going to stick to the fatty acid coating before it's going to stick to the membrane and the fatty acids will just wash off

as part of the

Bacteria so that's what we want to develop right we want to develop a water recycling system that simulates the small intestine

And that's the key aspect of the small intestine that provides. It's it's longevity

It's it's it's 80 plus 90 year life a boat associated with it

So here's a pic tutorial that kind of shows how this process would work

So down here we have a solution in this solution

we've taken ecoli and Whedon ethically engineered the e.coli so that the e.coli are hyper expressing fatty acids and

These are the fatty acids and also lipids as well

We use e.coli rather than mammalian cells because men cells are very hard to grow and e-coli is almost impossible to kill

So it makes a lot easier

so the

lipids then can replace any damage that occurs

This is the lipid bilayer here, so this would be the the actual membrane itself

And if there's any damage to this lipid membrane the lipids in solution can replace the missing lipids in there

But more importantly than that are the fatty acids the fatty acids are permeable through this lipid

bilayer membrane and so when they

When they're on this side we modified this solution so we have a high solubility of fatty acids when they permeate through the membrane into

the feed solution they have a very low

Solubility so they form a solid phase on the surface of the membrane. This is like a sacrificial

biologically sacrificial coating on the surface of the membranes so if for instance beta radiation in space

Attacks the water produces hydroxyl radicals that would oxidize the membrane and damage the membrane they're going to damage the fatty acid layer

before they damage the lipid layer

If anything is going to precipitate out shown here. They're going to attach themselves to the

actual

fatty acid layer rather than the lipid layer

And then the flow of fluid across the top strips off the fatty acids when the fatty acids are stripped off then more fatty acids

Permeate through the membrane to replace those

So that's the basis of the concept of this Regeneron membrane it pretty much follows

The way your small intestine works at least it follows sort of the lessons learned of how your small intestine works

That's not exactly the same as your small intestine, but the idea is that it mimics that regenerative capabilities?

It's taking the lessons learned from that evolutionary development of your small intestine and applying it to a mechanical system

So just kind of a summary we actually have a water recycling process that we utilize that in and that's this system right here

What so the way this works this this osmotic agent loop is where the bacteria grow so we the genetically engineered bacteria

Are in this loop the feed which is urine and humidity condensate is on the other side

And this is the bio membrane right here

the red would be the bio membrane so the fatty acids are applied to this side of the membrane and then the

genetically engineered bacteria on the other side so this solution is very high in

Concentration and lipids and fatty acids and the lipids and fatty acids permeate across the membrane in here and provide a protective coating to it

All right, so that's the the synthetic biological membrane technology now

there are other lessons that we've learned from the International Space Station that also have taken us in this direction of using the experience of

Evolution to resolve our problems, and I'm going to talk about two of those here

The rest of presentation one of them deals with when you have a closed spacecraft environment things build up in that environment trace contaminants

Contaminant you didn't even know existed in that environment over very long periods of time if they don't have a method of being removed

They're going to build up in the spacecraft cabin, and we're going to talk about some of those applications

And then the other one deals with this issue of things precipitating out and the problems associated with astronaut bone loss

And how that the impact that that has on water recycling systems

Okay, so the one of the projects that were working on is dealing with the International Space Station a failure of the International Space Station

Water recycling system to be able to remove a particular trace contaminant

It's building up in the space environment it actually exists in the air environment

That's where it's coming from is coming in through the condensing heat exchanger and getting into the water treatment system

This is a plot showing from

2010 all the way to

2016 looking at tall organic car carbon content of the output of what's called a multi filtration bed and as you can see

Normally, we have very low

concentration of organics, but then every once in a while we have these events that are occurring that are causing contaminants to

to

appear in high concentrations and

Occasionally exceed our minimal acceptable level for the product water quality and what's happening here? Is that we have this compound

It's in a very very low concentration

But one of the technologies in the ISS system is an absorption bed, and it builds up these compounds on it, and then eventually it

desorbs those compounds

and that's why we see these Peaks coming out and so we want to do is we want to get a

Technology that'll allow us to remove these compounds out of there

So this is a float around the ISS system

I remember I was four into these multi filtration beds so water comes in here

Goes through a filter goes through this multi filtration bed

Then it goes through this catalytic reactor that oxidizes it and the problem is this multi filtration bed is failing over long periods of times

So the approach is to replace those multi filtration beds with a bio membrane with a biological membrane to to

fix that and we're using a technique of membrane called an aquaporin

Membrane it's very similar to the member. I just described you

It's a lipid base membrane, but it has a protein embedded it called aquaporin protein

And you guys are all based on aquaporin proteins aquaporin proteins are how your your kidneys work and separating water from your blood

They're key in your cellular function for increased flux water channels in cells

They're commonly found in in root zones of plants as well to

Accelerate water transport across membranes. It's a very unique protein because it's charged in the center has a positive charge in the center

So that means that any sort of salts are charged

molecules that pass through that

You'd have to get both charges to go through you'd have to get the positive and the negative to go through and you can't get

The positive to go through because the center of the protein has a positive charge associated with it so water can pass through it

Salts can't pass through it any organics that integrate organic acids or any organics that have a charge can't pass through it

Even if they're small enough to pass through the the pore in the in the system

The Nobel Prize was actually awarded to the person who found this in

2013 and there have been several development activities that have come out of that

Experience and one of them is developing membrane space with these aquaporin proteins into it

So we've been working with these proteins for some time now this actually shows what the membranes actually looked like they're little fibers that have

Been coated with lipids and the aquaporin proteins and his little contactors

We've been doing experiments on international space station where we've been taking wastewater on the space station and processing through them

And we've also been doing a lot of ground-based work

Simulating the wastewater, that's on the international space station and processing it through

This is just some typical results

They say these are mainly

Contaminants out of the cabin right so there's semi vault organics normally membranes cannot reject semi-volatile contaminants

It's only with these aquaporin proteins that we get any rejection of semi-volatile

contaminants out of these membranes as you can see we have about a 50% a

50% reduction in the total organic carbon of the water going through it which meets our target for the downstream

Volatile removal assembly and this is the the problematic compound

DMS D. That's building up in the International Space Station

And we can really dramatically have an impact on that it actually rejects DMS D

Very well from about 20 parts per million

We can get it down to around one or two parts per million and hold it there pretty reliably alright

so that's another example of basically a biological technology a

Biological technology that has been optimized that protein the structure of that protein has been optimized over the four billion years of life

That is existed here on earth

And it is an endpoint that is perfectly designed

for doing separations of biological fluids and of course on the space station our wastewater is a

biological fluid

So and that project is actually moving to a flight project and so next year

We'll be transferring to a flight project and in the year after that they'll be working to replace the multi filtration beds on ISS with

that technology

Now another technology that I want to talk about there isn't actually biological

But I need to sort of set the stage for an another biological

Technology deals with a failure that we had on the international space station

Almost a month after we installed the water recycling system on the ISS

The the urine processing system actually stopped functioning it stopped functioning because because there was a compound that was

Precipitating out in it called calcium sulfate calcium sulfate comes from the fact that when you take astronauts

And you put them in space they lose bone mass since they don't have the loading that you typically have here on earth

They're floating around in space your body automatically

redistributes calcium in your in your in your body moves

Bone from your legs and moves it up to your head and change it around and also you excrete an awful lot more

Calcium in your urine under those circumstances and NASA is a very conservative organization

so we all freaked out about that and

We give them lots of calcium supplements and things like that that do virtually nothing because it's a regulatory process and so all that calcium

ends up in the urine and

With if it mixes with sulfate or carbon dioxide it produces calcium sulfate

Calcium carbonate is a byproduct and that was a failure mode for the ISS water recycling system

So we had to bring that thing back down to earth

He had a chisel chip out all the calcium out of it

And then reef lie it back up the International Space Station it cost about a hundred million dollars to do that very very expensive

So needless to say NASA was very interested in

Developing technologies that would prevent that from happening and so we had a lot of funding to look at different technologies

And this is one of the technologies called

Electrodialysis metathesis that allows us to actually deal with this calcium issue and remove it from solution and prevent it from causing problems

We integrated it with the space station what urine processor that's basically what's on the right height right hand side there

and what we did is we

Turn the system on and then we ran the urine processor at very high water recovery rates

And then we just tried to make it fail try and see if we could make it fail

These are some pictures that show the inside of that system these discs

Here are the heat transfer surface

And you can see here is with the the electrode allen smith

Metathesis system off and you can see the calcium scale formation and then these are a bunch of different runs where we had the system

On as you can see it totally resolves that calcium problem

So the basic approach was NASA had this problem problem was that these end points these

byproducts of treating human wastes are precipitate out of solution they're causing problems are causing systems to fail and

Having them making them have to come back to earth be repaired and come up with solutions to solve that problem

Not a good situation if you're on your way to Mars to have those kinds of failure modes be a parent a much better approach

Is to sort of change your entire philosophy as as to how you would conduct one of these systems

So this is back another picture of this bone. This is astronaut bone basically is what it is. There's two different kinds

There's the green kind. That's Russian astronaut bone, and there's the brown kind. That's us astronaut bone there

It's kind of complicated. Why that why the colors are different?

But basically what this material is is

It's gypsum so mixtures of calcium sulfate and calcium carbonate are commonly called jibsen in another word

You've probably heard of his wall board so sheet rock. That's used in houses probably in this room

We have sheet rock here right so on ISS. We have developed a system where if this material fails

It causes the water recycling system fail

However, it's a useful product. I mean it's a construction material, so we're kind of taking the wrong approach here

Rather than having this end point be a failure mode

We should have this end point be something of value if you're on your way to Mars

The waste that you have is the best resource that you have

The best material that you have so the more you can utilize that waste for some beneficial purpose the better off you're going to be

So this is a project that was called water walls

It's funded through the Nayak proposal and that was the objective of this it was to take all of those human waste

byproducts all of the nastiest most disgusting byproducts the concentrated urine by-product the

Concentrated feces all the garbage. That's produced on space station all this bone astronaut bone material

That's been produced and turned it into something

That's useful for that space mission so the idea was you have an inflatable habitat. This is a Bigelow

inflatable habitat

And then you basically

start off with some water in some bags on the walls and as time goes on the

astronauts produce waste and the waste that the astronauts produce is used to convert the

Inflatable structure into a rigid structure, so this is like a living organism. It has a berth

It's launched Flay table structures launch the inflatable structure is deployed

Then this habitat has a life and the life is during the period of time that you have astronauts in it

And they're producing wastes and those wastes

Then are filling out the construction of the entire habitat

and then it has a death and the death of course is when it's all used up all the

Capacity of the system is used up

And it just simply becomes a an enclosed volume in orbit between Earth and Mars

And you know like a taxi system for going between the earth and the Mars

Now the real objective with this waste is radiation like I said before we have the technology to go to Mars

The problem is we can't afford to go to Mars and the real reason we can't afford to go to Mars is radiation protection

You're going to get a good dose of radiation on your way to Mars

You're gonna get galactic radiation

And you're gonna get solar radiation if there's a Sun flare occurs on your way to Mars

You could just get killed by the radiation radiation levels could be high enough

It would just kill you on the spot the Galactic radiation would call it's just gonna cause a significant problem for you

No matter what it's more of a constant. This is a plot that shows galactic

galactic radiation and solar radiation

not taking into account Sun flares on solar radiation and the maximum dose limit that a human being can get of

Radiation during the period of time and as you can see we can get right up to around

like 170 days and after 170 days

You are definitely giving yourself cancer on this mission right so that's a big problem so NASA has to provide radiation protection

Material this is assuming an aluminum canister like International Space Station canister

So we need to provide radiation protection that means we need to bring material from the ground in order to provide radiation protection

If you look at that for a 240 day space mission you're talking about

130,000 kilograms of water it would be required to provide

Radiation protection it turns out the only things that really work for radiation protection are water and polyethylene

it's really the hydrogen is the key you need to get hydrogen hydrogen is the key for providing radiation protection and

130

130 thousand kilograms of water means this mission is not going to happen

There's no way we can afford to launch those kinds of volumes into into space

If you just look at solar radiation that it's not quite as bad you need about 25,000 kilograms of

Water in that application, so where are we going to get all this water? We're going to get all this radiation protection material

Well, we have the International Space Station

It has a water recycling system on it, and it produces a concentrated by-product

They also produce feces on the international space and they produce garbage on the international space station

So the water walls concept is to harvest all of that stuff that

disgusting byproducts of human waste

Process it and then use it for radiation protection in a mission in a spacecraft that will be traveling between Earth and Mars

so how does that work so if you look at that at the masses that are required for that if you look at a

six-person crew on the International Space Station achieving 80% water recovery they're gonna produce about

6,500 kilograms a year which means for solar radiation it would only take about four years to stockpile enough

material to provide that radiation protection material for a Bigelow

type inflatable structure application

And if you want to do galactic radiation it would take about ten years to produce that kind of wastewater you have to launch anything

From the ground you're basically getting all this material in orbit for free as a matter of fact

We typically destroy all that waste by by re-entry into Earth's atmosphere, which costs money, too

So you'll actually save money so the basic concept

And this is a that's a bunch of different life support functions that all fall into the same concept

And I have these picture toriel graphics to kind of describe how this works is

You have the crew in the spacecraft all their wastewater is put into these small little bags

the bags then process the waste water using forward osmosis to remove the water out of them and

The water then goes through an RO system is provided back to the crew the bags eventually become completely filled with this

Basically grow solid materials. It's still mostly water, but it has a lot of solids byproducts into it and and then those are

vacuumed processed and then the solid

bags become like tiles they become radiation protection tiles and then these tiles are placed on the outside wall of the

Spacecraft and so as a function of time the spacecraft capacity for radiation protection

Increases you know as the humans generate more and more waste

The basic bag we use is commercially available product so hydration technologies X packed bags afford osmosis bag

This is a great little product if particularly if you live here in California where there's earthquakes right no earthquakes

I tell you should keep five gallons of water, and if your bed and every year you should replace the five gallons of water

Right how many people do that?

Nobody does that right well with this little bag. You can buy this little bag it has about a 10-year life

You just throw that under your under your bed when there's an earthquake

And you need water wake up pee in the bag. You got all the water you want as a matter of fact

We actually sometimes have cocktail hours where we make all the interns pee in a bag

And then we have a cocktail hour and make them all drink their own urine

They get really excited about that

This is an example of an actual test producing this material, so this is urine brine

Concentrates feces and garbage all mixed together, and then we process it in the bag

And you can kind of see we produce this kind of tari material

It's kind of like toffee basically is what it is, and we took those samples and sent them and had radiation

Dosing done with them what we found was that we actually can dry them a little a little too much

And we need to drive a little si need have a little higher water content our real focus was drying enough so that

Bacteria can't grow in them so they're basically sterile, so nothing can grow inside of them, but that actually resulted in a little bit

Too low water content, so we need some more

processing to do there

But that's the basic idea so you're gonna take these bags all those endpoints the life-support system are going to be processed

inside the bags you won't cut them open and the bags are assembled either on the outside or the inside of the

Spacecraft to provide radiation protection as a function of time right so the system has a life expectancy

we also do this with for humidity control same thing we have a bag the bag has has a

Different type of membrane that allow allows gases to pass through it so the humidity the water vapor in the air

Goes inside the bag the water is cooled through a cooling system, and then it accumulates the water in the bag

We recycle the water in the bag and provide fresh water back to the crew

carbon dioxide

Control and oxygen generation is done by growing algae inside these bags. We populated with algae again

it's a membrane that allows gas to pass through it the carbon dioxide goes into the bag the

The algae used the carbon dioxide as a food source

They also electrolyze water and produce oxygen, so oxygen comes out of it

And then eventually the bag becomes completely full of dead algae

And then it's processed similar to the waste water and turned into a tile used for radiation protection as well

Now these systems are our put on the outside

So these are the bags here on the outside of the habitat the Bigelow habitat

And that's kind of a cross-section

Showing it takes multiple layers of bag one bag is not going to provide enough radiation protection

So you have to provide multiple layers of the bags in order to get the targeted water targeted level of radiation protection

This is a diagram

This just kind of goes into a little bit more detail on how these bags would be placed and how they would be plumbed together

On the inside there's a protective screen so that you don't put a hole in them if something gets gets free out of the system

So this is an analysis that we did looking at the radiation protection

So these are layers of bags how many layers of bags?

Would you need in order to get this protection level?

so this is for the solar ray and this is for the Galactic radiation and really within about two layers of

Bags we can pretty much

sequester all the solar radiation very simply

the galactic

Radiation is a much more difficult one to deal with it takes actually quite a bit quite quite a few layers of bags in order

to get to an acceptable level of

radiation exposure

now what you have to do is you have to tailor the number of bags and number of radiation protection for the duration of the

Mission because of course radiation is an exposure

function and so it's a function of how often it is exposed the

Other thing you get for this technology is you get all of your life support functions integrated into them

This is a very complicated diagram

I'm not going to go through in a lot of detail

But very similar to that one I showed for the International Space Station system earlier in the presentation where the crew is the center

We have an air revitalization system that has the algae in it and a humidity control

We also have bags used for volatile contaminant destruction

climate control

And then the urine and black water processing and there are also some power systems that we can integrate into that as well

For doing it

How much time to have that perfect?

So what I've outlined here are these basic concepts of taking these

biological functions not actually biologic by out biology

But the biological functions and integrating them into mechanical systems produce a new class of technologies that are integrated what we call

Biologic organs or biologic functions we haven't only been doing those for spaceflight applications

We've also been doing terrestrial applications for that and this is a picture of the green building

It's right across the street from us right over here, and that system has a water recycling system

It has a forward osmosis water recycling system integrated into it so it functions the same basic way your small intestine functions

Takes all the hygiene water purifies it and we use it for flushing toilets in the building and that's a picture of the system

It's been operating now for about two years pretty much continuously. We actually haven't been putting water back in the building yet. That's something

That's going to happen pretty soon

That's what we're really interested in testing and getting

Operational data, but that's a primary objective

It's a way of way for us to test forward osmosis

Systems for spaceflight applications for years and years and years with human waste as input into them

The other thing that came out of that process of the army heard about green building application

And they asked us to build one of these biological

Biologic systems for them so we built a forward operating base water recycling system

It uses the the synthetic biological membrane inside of it

And this is for Ford operating base forward operating bases the sort of the smallest fixed facility that the army operates out in the field

And if you look at conflicts like Iraq and Afghanistan the highest death rate associated with those was contract employees so local Afghani

Iraqi employees working for the US Army trucking material to Forward Operating Base is trucking water

Fuel to forward operating bases and then waste back out from Ford operating bases so the Army wants to develop a Forward Operating Base

That's completely self-sufficient similar to like a Mars base kind of an application and so this technology was developed for that's been very successful

It's gone through a very competitive process

And it does look like it is going to become the baseline system for the US Army in the future

Okay, so because the conclusions here

So the objective of this presentation was to give all of you guys ideas so that when you go on do master's PhD?

Thesis is you know what you're supposed to be doing you write a proposal you submit it to NASA

I review your proposal and you get funding all right

It's pretty simple equation and what we're really interested in is reliability issues any kind of issues that address reliability. That's a key

Aspect of in the life support arena the area that we're doing primarily work in is looking at integrating

Biological mechanical systems together not developing biological systems we have done that before we've done by our reactors to treat wastewater

by our reactors produce carbon dioxide

Things that produce carbon dioxide we call them crew members. We don't need any more crew members

We don't want any more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere

But integrating biological systems into making for instance biological materials that have unique characteristics associated

With them that provide reliability, those are the types of things that we're looking for

So some examples of other projects that we've been looking at is. There's a group a university group

That's actually making CCD cameras out of biological so they grow bacteria

They genetically engineer the bacteria to express a protein

When light hits the bacteria that protein is expressed a protein is conductive and you can measure?

The change in the amount of proteins in - and you can actually make a small amra

That works using that technique and CCD cameras are very susceptible to radiation

So they're a problem heart think of your heart heart your heart is a pump

Runs 24 hours a day seven days a week 365 days a year for 80 years. I mean there are no pumps

Commercially or NASA that come anywhere near that level of reliability that is the most reliable pump by far out there

We also have a project where we're looking at developing an auto immune system a synthetic immune system

So the idea is you're on your way to Mars

and

you get diagnosed with some sort of a disease or some sort of sickness and this system allows you to like your body would to

produce antibiotics to produce proteins to produce enzymes to respond to the disease that you have there and that's again done by

Genetically engineering eco light to express those compounds so all right, so that's all I have time

I have four so if anybody has any questions

Thank you

So we have time for a couple of questions

So if you have a question raise your hand wait for the microphone and please ask one question only Thank You

Great talk Michael I have a specific question for you

And then something general to follow the specific question is that biological systems are wonderful no doubt

But it's kind of a misconception to say that they that they're so

Stable because they're repairing themselves all the time and the repair takes energy

so that the system although, it's

Wonderfully efficient in terms of how long it lasts. It's actually

repaired a lot

So you kind of describe that with lipids yeah?

So let me give you an example of that so in the bio membrane project where we were

Repairing the membrane as it gets damaged we need a source of energy

Right to do that

And there's two sources of energy that we're looking at one of them is the feed the feed is human waste

So that has nitrogen phosphorus sulfur in it has an organic content

And so the idea is the bacteria would actually live off of that organic content

That's they're somewhat problematic because it is waste so a lot of the energy has been removed out of it's not a high energy

Solution so another approach we're looking at is using actually sino bacteria

genetically engineering cyanobacteria

to express the fatty acids that we're interested in and then we could use carbon dioxide and crew cabin light as a

Source of energy, but you're absolutely correct. You know biological systems do carry some overhead

I think that's what you're kind of driving at associated with their operating

But you know in many cases like with regard to a separation memory is treating human waste

I mean bacterias gonna grow in there one way or another so you might as well have it do something good for you

right

So water scarcity is definitely an issue in space, but as you highlighted with the

The army topic that it's also an issue on earth. There are a lot of people who don't have access to clean water

Are there any lessons from your studies so far in?

port osmosis membranes that could be applied to

water technologies here on earth yeah

So that is an area that we do actually a lot of work into and I only kind of touched on that with the army

system

So here in California. We have a drought right

Oh, and the governor comes out and says you know you had got a country water consumption by 20%, right?

Why can't I just pull out my credit card and solve that problem?

why can't I go into Home Depot with my credit card and just

Eliminate the drought as a problem go down there by a water recycling system hook it up in my house, right?

Well the reason is because you go down there you buy that put it in your house. You're never gonna maintain it, right

You're never gonna test it you're never gonna make sure the water is good. That's coming out of Jason

Go there plug it in and that thing better work without any maintenance

For a predetermined life period of time and it better be cheap to operate right it's almost identical to the criteria for a Mars mission

That system needs to run

continuously for a three-year period of time with no maintenance and not require any testing because you're on your way to Mars if the tests

Say that we can't drink the water

That's not particularly useful because you're drinking the water anyway right you don't have any option any backup situation so to take their that

Put put the power in the consumers hands to address the water recycling issue you need to have water recycling systems that are very very

reliable that don't fail and

So the bio membrane project is a project that we feel is a real game-changer in that area because that allows you then to develop

A water recycling system for instance that you might hook up to your washing machine that would recycle the water in your washing machine

And it has self repair characteristics to it right so fine don't maintain

It don't pay any attention to it that thing will just sit over there and repair itself on its own all right

So you're absolutely correct we have some big proposals in the state of California to do human

health studies and human factors studies and do

300 400 homes put water recycling systems into them that are going right now through the state whether they get funded or not

depends on the state, I guess

Yeah

So with that please join me in thanking Michael Flint for an excellent. Talk. Thank you very much

You

For more infomation >> Michael Flynn - Synthetic Biological Membrane | NASA Public Lecture | Science Lecture - Duration: 56:17.

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President Trump Declares Opioid Crisis Public Health Emergency - Duration: 2:46.

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Public Works TV : EP. 0004 Planting a Partnership - Duration: 3:50.

Welcome to Public Works TV. Let's take a look back at our accomplishments this past week.

We celebrated the opening of the McLaren Bike Park. San Francisco's first BMX and mountain biking recreation area.

Hillside stabilization work was completed on O'Shaughnessy Boulevard

to protect drivers, pedestrians and bicyclists from falling rocks.

The public got a chance to tour the new, state-of-the-art Office of the Chief Medical Examiner.

We teamed up with volunteers, Mayor Lee and Rebuilding Together SF

to help fix up homes and spruce up sidewalk landscaping in the Bayview.

Finally, we shared designs for the new Fireboat Station 35 on the Embarcadero with the neighbors.

Hi, I'm Mohammed Nuru Director of Public Works, City and County of San Francisco

Welcome to Public Works TV! We are here at Brotherhood Way with Community Leader Marc Christensen.

Marc, welcome to our show.

Well, thank you! Welcome.

I'd like to first thank Public Works for their wonderful partnership with the community.

This is Sisterhood Gardens and it sits on the Brotherhood Way Green Belt.

and in 2002 I believe, we met here for Community Clean Team day

and actually, right across the street, the 3 of us, along with other people, pulled weeds.

The whole side was so thick. You couldn't even see through it!

It was like a forest and there were a lot of invader species trees.

Every weekend we would come out and we would trim and we started cleaning and then we had community events here.

And we had a vision to put a community garden in and

they came out and built the first few planter boxes and then the community with the help of Public Works

We were given the wood and we had community volunteers come in and finish the project.

We now have over 50 volunteers on this side alone,

working to create what you see now and it's

and it's just the beginning! We've only been working on this for about a year and a half.

And there's a lot more to come.

I just want to say thank you because

you know, we are a real partnership...just like you said, there's so many people who come out and

give us an hour or two and some more but also from the Public Works department, just that partnership that we

have, we feel like you're part of our organization. And whenver you call us, we're here to serve and

by working together, it's how we arrive at a beautiful place like Brotherhood Way.

It has been a wonderful partnership.

All right! Hi five! Thank you!

For more infomation >> Public Works TV : EP. 0004 Planting a Partnership - Duration: 3:50.

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Khizr Khan on why public service is the root of patriotism - Duration: 3:59.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Finally, in another of our Brief But Spectacular series, we hear from

Khizr Khan.

He's the Gold Star father who gave a speech at the 2016 Democratic National Convention,

later called out for criticism by then candidate Donald Trump.

Mr. Khan has more recently been fund-raising for the Democratic Party.

Tonight, he tells us a about his son, Captain Humayun Khan, and the legacy he left behind.

Khizr Khan's book, "An American Family: A Memoir of Hope and Sacrifice," was released

this week.

KHIZR KHAN, Author, "An American Family: A Memoir of Hope and Sacrifice": I would take

my kids with our guests sometimes to Jefferson Memorial in Washington, D.C., and I would

ask them to read the inscription on the wall.

And they would be amazed to see what is written.

Sometimes, these kids would roll their eyes because I have taken them 20 times already.

And they would complain that, why you keep bringing us here?

But patriotism begins to take root.

When Captain Humayun Khan arrived at University of Virginia, Thomas Jefferson's university,

in Charlottesville, he became avid reader of Jefferson.

And public service, the emphasis on public service, serving others, became his motto.

And you see from his life how far that took him, service of others.

The person that he became by the training that the Army provided him turned him into

a patriot.

He was protecting those who were under his responsibility.

On June 8, 2004, in was in Baqubah, Iraq.

He realized that this car is moving too fast towards the doors.

He told his men and women at the gate to hit the ground.

He had the option to hit the ground.

That would have meant that this car would hit the gate and harm the people at the gate

and beyond on the other side of the wall.

He took 10 steps, those 10 made-in-America bravery steps, towards the car.

His hand extended trying to stop it.

He did stop the car, causing it to prematurely detonate.

He lost his life instantly there.

That has become symbol of Captain Humayun Khan, that there comes time in every person's

life when you have to stand up, even if it means risking your life, for the values that

you cherish so very much.

He granted us 27 years of his presence.

Only parents know this.

It is said that, when you lose a child, it creates a hole in your heart, and that is

never filled.

You learn to live with that.

Guess who said that to me?

I was at Union Station checking in to travel the train.

The person who was issuing the ticket looked at me.

He recognized me.

He came.

There was a line of people waiting.

He came behind the counter, gave me a hug, and whispered in my ear, "Mr. Khan, I want

to you know that I have lost a son too."

When I go to Arlington Cemetery, I not only stand at Captain Humayun Khan's grave and

pray for his soul.

I pray for all of my sons and daughters that are buried there.

It means so very much to me.

My name is Khizr Khan.

This is my Brief But Spectacular take on dignity and patriotism.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And thank you, Mr. Khan, for sharing that with all of us.

You can watch more of our Brief But Spectacular videos online at PBS.org/NewsHour/Brief.

For more infomation >> Khizr Khan on why public service is the root of patriotism - Duration: 3:59.

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FNN: Tax reform one step closer, President Trump declares opioid public emergency - Duration: 2:58:48.

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What happens now that the opioid crisis is officially a public health emergency? - Duration: 7:35.

JUDY WOODRUFF: We return now to our lead story, President Trump's declaration of a public

health emergency over the opioid epidemic.

William Brangham is back with a look at what it could mean.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And for that, we're joined by two people who've studied this epidemic

for a very long time.

Dr. Bertha Madras sits on President Trump's opioid commission.

She's a professor of psychobiology at Harvard Medical School.

And Dr. Andrew Kolodny, he's co-director of opioid policy research at Brandeis University's

Heller School and is executive director of Physicians for Responsible Opioid Prescribing,

a group dedicated to reducing the overprescription of painkillers.

Welcome to you both to the "NewsHour."

DR.

ANDREW KOLODNY, Brandeis University: Thank you.

DR.

BERTHA MADRAS, Harvard Medical School: Thank you.

Delighted to be here.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Andrew Kolodny, I would like to start with you.

I wonder if you could just give me your reaction to the president's initiatives today?

DR.

ANDREW KOLODNY: I'm disappointed.

We heard from the president last August that he considered the opioid crisis to be an emergency.

Back in August, I would have expected the president to announce what he was going to

do about the problem and to begin taking action.

If you call a problem an emergency, you expect to see immediate action to address it.

And then months went by, and, today, we heard again that he considers this an emergency.

He's giving it an official designation as a public health emergency, but we're still

not really receiving a detailed plan about the actions that will be taken.

And I'm especially disappointed that the president isn't announcing that he is seeking an appropriation

from Congress.

I believe we need billions of dollars invested in building out a treatment system that doesn't

exist yet if we're going to see overdose deaths start to come down.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Dr. Madras, what do you make of this?

This is a criticism that a lot of people have said, that it is obviously hugely symbolic

for the president to talk about it as personally and as movingly as he did today, but that,

absent money behind it, it may not be enough.

DR.

BERTHA MADRAS: Well, I -- my lovely colleague Dr. Kolodny and I disagree on the take on

this.

First of all, this opioid crisis has festered for almost a decade.

The upsurge was in 2010.

And I think to expect the president to solve the problem within a few weeks or months of

declaring it a national emergency is unrealistic, especially since the report of the commission

is coming up next week.

That report is going to have far greater detail in terms of areas that need funding, areas

that need dramatic reform, and areas, of course, that need prevention.

My take on the president's speech today is that it was one of the finest presentations

on the overview of what drugs do to people, what the consequences are, and it presents

a national philosophy on drugs that we haven't heard in recent times.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Dr. Kolodny, let's say that next week the president does come forward

with the billions of dollars you would like to see put towards this epidemic.

What are we to do with that money?

What are the big challenges that need funding and need attention?

DR.

ANDREW KOLODNY: Yes, if we want to see overdose deaths begin to come down, what will have

to happen is, we need to be in a place where someone who is opioid-addicted, when they

wake up in the morning -- and if you are opioid-addicted, when you wake up in the morning, you are going

to need to use opioids pretty quickly, or you are going to be feeling very sick.

That individual needs to be able to access effective outpatient treatment more easily

than they can access pain pills, heroin or fentanyl.

If that person is going to be feeling sick soon, and they have got $20 in their pocket,

they are going to go out and they are going to use heroin.

We need that person to be able to walk into a treatment center, and get treated that same

day, regardless of their ability to pay for it.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Wouldn't you agree that that is really the central issue here, that

people who want treatment oftentimes don't have access to it?

DR.

BERTHA MADRAS: Treatment on demand.

And, Andrew, if you could wait until the report comes out, there is clearly a recognition

of the need for people who are motivated.

The biggest problem that I see in dealing with people who have an opioid use disorder

is that a large proportion of them do not come forward.

And I'm more concerned that these are the people who are moving into an overdose crisis,

as much as the people who are people who are motivated.

People who are motivated should be able to access high-quality treatment.

That's another issue.

What is high-quality treatment?

There is no national consensus.

We talk about addiction as a brain disease, and yet we don't treat it as a medical problem.

We have treatment centers that are completely divorced from the medical community.

We have medications-assisted treatment in one part of a community and then methadone

in another part.

Nothing is converging into a holistic approach to an individual with an opioid use disorder.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Dr. Kolodny, some others have pointed out that, even if the money were

to come and the guide lines were crystal-clear on a plan of action, that there are still

many officials within the government themselves -- we don't have a head of HHS, we don't have

a drug czar right now.

Are those impediments, in your mind, to tackling this crisis?

DR.

ANDREW KOLODNY: I believe that's the reason we don't have a plan.

I think for the president to give an address with vague information about what he is going

to do to tackle a problem might be OK if the administration had a detailed plan ready to

release to the public.

But there is no plan.

I don't believe that the administration agencies that should be tackling this problem, that

should be putting out a detailed proposal, I don't believe that they're doing it.

And although there is a commission that President Trump has put together to make recommendations,

it's not the commission's job to come up with the plan for tackling the crisis.

It should be coming from the agencies.

And with all respect to Dr. Madras, we have waited a very long time for a response from

the federal government for tackling this problem.

We haven't seen it.

And it is true that this problem began before -- began a while ago.

And it's true that the Obama administration neglected the opioid addiction epidemic.

It really wasn't until President Obama's last year in office that he began speaking about

the problem or seeking funding from Congress to address it.

What we need to do to tackle this problem has been pretty clear for a while.

And it isn't something that the federal government can solve on its own.

But we have counties doing everything they can to tackle the problem, and there has yet

to be real help from the federal government.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Dr. Andrew Kolodny, Dr. Bertha Madras, thank you both very much.

DR.

ANDREW KOLODNY: Thank you for having us.

DR.

BERTHA MADRAS: Thank you.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: You can find all of our coverage of the opioids crisis, America Addicted,

on our Web site, PBS.org/NewsHour.

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