Thứ Tư, 30 tháng 1, 2019

News on Youtube Jan 31 2019

Hello all you coin aficionados out there and Welcome to the DC Coin World International Coin Channel.

Today we're going to talk to you about the Famous 1962 D Lincoln Memorial One Cent coin

nowas many of you know in 1959 the United States changed from the wheat Cents

To the Lincoln Memorial Cents so on the back instead of the ears of wheat

This is a 1944 Wheat One Cent coin

You can see the wheat they call it the wheat cent because it has these

stalks or ears of wheat on this side they changed in 1959 to the Lincoln

Memorial and this change not only changed some of the makeup of the coins

so it from a bronze coin which was 95% copper zinc and tin to a coin 95% copper and 5% zinc with no Tin.

When they did that it changed the hue of the coins a little

bit in other words the kind of the coloring of the coins and in 1962 there

are some really famously red cents that collectors just love so those who love

the graded Lincoln those kind of collectors they call them graded

Lincoln's because they will go to either PCGS or NGC and actually get graded

according to what kind of condition they're in and how red they are and

these particular coins have a not quite a bright red but a very very

reddish copper variety that the collectors love in fact in a couple

years ago they went up as high as $4,000 dollars for an MS 67 RD or red so an MS

67 means that it's just a beautiful coin it's in great condition

it'll be essentially not just look unused but unscratched and there are a

number of those varieties out there so in 2016 one of them sold for about four

thousand plus dollars four thousand four hundred if you count the fees that you

have to pay to the auction site they still list them at around two thousand

plus dollars on NGC and PCGS in in terms of some of the values so these could be

very valuable coins what will it look like well it will be bright red it won't

have the wear marks or the scratches of this one and she's this one you can see

some of the reddish on here but it's not a bright red and you can see the wear

marks on here it says In God We Trust at the top Liberty behind Lincoln in 1962 D

here when people start magnifying their Lincoln cents a lot of times they say

well this must be something wrong with this because the L is really touching

the side no that that kind of has always been there I'll show you that 1944 again

the 1944 it you know pretty much touches or comes close to touching there so

these cents get the words get really close to the rim and they sometimes they

kind of touch the rim that will not bring you any real value even if it is

almost touching the rim it's just not offset enough even if it does another

thing about the 1962's is that there's a number of different looks on these where

the nine and the six have different heights and the two is a slightly offset

see how this two kind of goes at an angle here it almost beers to the left

it's like it's tipped over that's pretty standard for these coins and it was

probably something that happened in the minting or stamping process they got it

a little bit offset then there's also some varieties on this 1962 where the D

is a little bit lower and doesn't quite go up up to the 9

and so you might find one with a D that slightly lower than the 9 under the

so if you drew a line straight across the bottom of the 9 there are some

varieties where it doesn't touch that the line would not touch the D another

thing you look at when you look at these Lincoln cents is how finely engraved the

back is so in these ones you can kind of see that there's some bushes here and

you can kind of see the steps but a little bit of we're in the steps you can

see Lincoln Way in the back you can see kind of the scrollwork up here see how

that's girl work right there is kind of worn the steps are kind of worn here

this urn or container here at the bottom of the steps is kind of worn if you get

a good one of these these (Sorry about that shaking) the steps will be perfect lines across

You'll actually be able to see some in the bushes over here you'll be

able to see some of the shrubbery if we look over way over to the right and this

is about as magnified as we're going to get here we see something kind of stuck

over there on the end of the shrubberies and that's an F G so see that there is an F

there and a G that's for Frank Gasparro who engraved the back of this coin. So he was the one who did the obverse or back of Memorial Cent

Remember the Lincoln since 1909 the front had

been the same design by Victor David Brenner and we'll see if we can show you

his initials they are often hard to see on these coins but if we tip it up just

right you'll be able to see that there are some initials right in here boy

that's tough to see isn't it right underneath Lincoln there is a VDP well

I'm not even sure we're going to be able to see it in this one you can

a little bit right there yeah see right at the top of my pen

there was a V a D and a B that stands for Victor David Brenner

and that's his initials on the bottom of Lincoln right underneath his that his

shoulder there you can see right there the VDB so the front was always a

Victor David Brenner Actually the first coin that came out his

initials were very prominent and that's one that is incredibly collectible this

one is not so collectible it doesn't have the bright red it doesn't have any

of the specialty conditions on the steps or anything and it's surely not even

gonna be graded as a fine never mind a MS67 plus red. So that's all we have

today for the DC Coin World International Coin Channel if you're

collecting the 1962 D's it's gonna have to be an incredibly good condition to

have a value even if it is in general it's going to be worth about twenty nine

dollars or thirty dollars not $2,000 or $4,000 dollars but if you are a collector

who looks for the full red graded Lincoln's and that's all you want in

life is to get one of those sometimes you're willing to spend a thousand or

two thousand dollars for one have a great day from the DC Coin World

International Coin Channel

For more infomation >> 1962 D US One Cent - $4,000 United States Penny sold at auction - Duration: 8:15.

-------------------------------------------

USPS suspends mail delivery in NINE states as deep freeze hits Midwest - Daily News - Duration: 5:08.

A deadly arctic deep freeze enveloped the Midwest with record-breaking low temperatures on Wednesday, prompting the US Postal Service to take the rare step of suspending mail delivery to nine states in the region

 .USPS said it would suspend mail delivery on Wednesday in parts or all of North and South Dakota, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Virginia and Michigan, as the National Weather Service forecast plunging temperatures from one of the coldest air masses in years

The latest update on USPS service disruption was posted at 8am Eastern.  The USPS motto states, 'Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds

' But the motto doesn't say anything about extreme cold, and the weather forecast including record low temperatures in eight states shut down postal operations on Wednesday

'Weather forecasters are warning of dangerously cold conditions in parts of the nation

Some places could see wind chill readings as low as 60 below zero,' the service alert from USPS said

   But elsewhere, mail delivery continued as usual, even with temperatures below zero degrees Fahrenheit

In another part of Ohio for example, one postal worker told DailyMail.com, 'Just another day in Canton,' confirming that delivery of parcels and packages had been carrying on, as per usual

In Canton, the low on Wednesday was negative four degrees Fahrenheit (negative 20 Celsius), warming up ever so slightly to negative one Fahrenheit (negative 18 Celsius) by 9am Eastern

 The bitter cold is the result of a split in the polar vortex that allowed temperatures to plunge much further south than normal

Officials presiding over many government functions throughout the Midwest were focused on protecting vulnerable people from the cold, including the homeless, seniors and those living in substandard housing

 Some buses were turned into mobile warming shelters to help the homeless in Chicago, where temperatures plunged to negative 19 degrees Fahrenheit (negative 28 degrees Celsius) early on Wednesday, breaking the previous record low for the day set in 1966

Governors in Illinois, Wisconsin and Michigan declared emergencies as the worst of the cold threatened on Wednesday

 In Chicago, major attractions closed because of the bitter cold, including the Lincoln Park Zoo, the Art Institute and the Field Museum

'These (conditions) are actually a public health risk and you need to treat it appropriately,' Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel said on Tuesday

'They are life-threatening conditions and temperatures.'A wind chill of negative 25 degrees Fahrenheit (negative 32 degrees Celsius) can freeze skin within 15 minutes, according to the National Weather Service

The extreme cold hitting the US is attributed to a sudden warming far above the North Pole

 A blast of warm air from misplaced Moroccan heat last month made the normally super chilly air temperatures above the North Pole rapidly increase

That split the polar vortex into pieces, which then started to wander, Judah Cohen, a winter storm expert for Atmospheric Environmental Research, said

Share this article Share One of those polar vortex pieces is responsible for the subzero temperatures across the Midwest this week

Those concerned about their mail service can check back for service alerts on the USPS website

 

For more infomation >> USPS suspends mail delivery in NINE states as deep freeze hits Midwest - Daily News - Duration: 5:08.

-------------------------------------------

R-Truth vs. Rusev - United States Championship Match: SmackDown LIVE, Jan. 29, 2019 - Duration: 2:42.

This is our second United States Championship match tonight.

R-Truth, before the commercial break, knocked off Shinsuke Nakamura,

who this past Sunday, at the Royal Rumble pay-per-view kickoff show had beaten

Rusev for the United States Championship.

>> It's no secret, R-Truth's never been the brightest star in the sky.

But the decision to accept this matchup, it was strange, yeah.

This was during the commercial break.

Rusev nearly put away R-Truth right here.

But a kickout by Truth.

And, Byron, we're living in an age where there's no contractual rematches for

former champions.

So that applies to Shinsuke Nakamura and

now he's got Rusev doing the exact same thing.

>> Yeah, Truth had about 25 seconds to celebrate and

down comes Rusev understandably frustrated and

to your point Corey I think it's just R-Truth's pride getting in the way.

He got called out, he got put on blast by Rusev and he responded in kind,

saying if you wanna go, let's go.

>> Are you done spewing nonsense Saxton?

Because what you should be doing is giving credit to Rusev for

maybe the smartest decision of his career.

Rusev is about to become United States Champion again.

And Truth's gonna go down in the history books as one of the most

ignorant champions of all time.

>> Now listen, you can't make assumptions like that.

Just like you assumed that Shinsuke Nakamura was gonna run through R-Truth

a few minutes ago.

>> Wait a minute.

Truth trying to catch Rusev out of the corners.

>> [APPLAUSE] >> Truth has beaten Rusev.

>> You were saying Corey?

>> [LAUGH] >> Here is your winner.

And still the United States Champion, R-Truth.

>> Now who had the last laugh at the end there.

It looks like R-Truth knew what he was doing all along.

>> No, and Nakamura from behind to the new United States Champion.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

>> After Sunday he just lost the chance to the championship.

>> Are Nakamura and Rusev together?

>> Come on.

I get being frustratedand all but this is ridiculus.

>> R-Truth took advantage of the opportunity and

now it's a two on one attack.

>> [SOUND] >> Kick to Truth.

>> [SOUND]

For more infomation >> R-Truth vs. Rusev - United States Championship Match: SmackDown LIVE, Jan. 29, 2019 - Duration: 2:42.

-------------------------------------------

Record-breaking temperatures prompt states of emergency - Duration: 2:02.

For more infomation >> Record-breaking temperatures prompt states of emergency - Duration: 2:02.

-------------------------------------------

Bill Nye: Climate Change Will Be 'Far Reaching' On United States | Hardball | MSNBC - Duration: 6:13.

For more infomation >> Bill Nye: Climate Change Will Be 'Far Reaching' On United States | Hardball | MSNBC - Duration: 6:13.

-------------------------------------------

Generational Cold Weather Moving Across Parts Of United States - Duration: 1:38.

For more infomation >> Generational Cold Weather Moving Across Parts Of United States - Duration: 1:38.

-------------------------------------------

US NEWS | Texas Secretary of States possible voter fraud statistics that Trump touted still being co - Duration: 0:28.

US NEWS | Texas Secretary of States possible voter fraud statistics that Trump touted still being co

Days after President Trump used statistics from the Texas Secretary of State to reignite fears of voter fraud, the state office is trying to actually confirm the numbers.

Late last week, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton announced that his office is working with the Secretary of State to investigate 95,000 voters who were flagged in its system as having previously provided the Texas Department of Public Safety with documentation including a work visa or green card that showed they were not a citizen.

Every single instance of illegal voting threatens democracy in our state and deprives individual Texans of their voice, Paxton said in a statement.

Nothing is more vital to preserving our Constitution than the integrity of our voting process, and my office will do everything within its abilities to solidify trust in every election in the state of Texas.

Trump latched onto the numbers Sunday morning.

These numbers are just the tip of the iceberg, he tweeted. All over the country, especially in California, voter fraud is rampant. Must be stopped. Strong voter ID!

But by Tuesday, the secretary of states office was already walking back the statistics.

Five Texas counties — Harris, Travis, Fort Bend, Collin and Williamson — have been told that the 95,000 number included a substantial number of voters who have since become citizens, Douglas Ray, a special assistant county attorney in Harris County, told the .

Its still unclear exactly how many of the 95,000 individuals flagged do not actually belong on the list of suspicious voters.

As part of the process of ensuring that no eligible voters are impacted by any list maintenance activity, we are continuing to provide information to the counties to assist them in verifying eligibility of Texas voters, the secretary of states office said in a statement to the Daily News.

This is to ensure that any registered voters who provided proof of citizenship at the time they registered to vote will not be required to provide proof of citizenship as part of the counties examination.

The statistics reported by the Secretary of State and Attorney General also include elections from 1996 to 2018, which Trump did not specify in his Sunday tweet.

For more infomation >> US NEWS | Texas Secretary of States possible voter fraud statistics that Trump touted still being co - Duration: 0:28.

-------------------------------------------

States of Grace: Utopia in Brazilian Culture - Duration: 1:02:11.

>> Suzanne Schadl: My name is Suzanne Schadl,

I am the new chief in the Hispanic division here

in the Library of Congress.

I'd like to welcome the audience and thank you for coming.

I would like to say just real quickly a few words

about the Hispanic division and about Talia Guzman-Ganzalez,

who has organized today's event.

So, does everybody here know about the Hispanic division

and what we do for the most part?

So, I'll just reiterate.

I think one of the most -- this is from me --

I think one of the most important things that we do is

that we provide people who help people and you can see

when we're talking about corrections

that we have corrections in many different parts

of the Library of Congress.

So, here today you have rare books,

you have general collection, you have prints and photographs.

And they all deal with some extent with the topic

of our presentation today and that's brought together

by Talia, who has also brought in community members

and academics who are experts in this field.

So, one of the most important contributions we can make is

to bring resources and people and discussions

about those resources and topics together.

And I'm very grateful to Talia and many others of you

in the room to do that kind of work, so I'm going to turn it

over to her so she can introduce our speaker.

And thank you.

>> TALIA GUZMAN-GONZALEZ: Thank you, Suzanne.

Welcome, everyone to this event.

On behalf of my colleagues in Hispanic division,

I would like to welcome you all to the Library of Congress.

And especially to these book talk, State of Grace,

Utopia in Brazilian Culture, by Patricia Vieira

and it would be moderated by Professor Thayse Lina.

I'm going to introduce our speakers,

then Professor Vieira will come here and do a short presentation

of the book and then we'll move

to the moderate conversation with Professor Lina.

There's going to be time for questions, so, please, you know,

if something comes up, feel free to ask at the end,

and hopefully you'll also take advantage of seeing the --

some of the wonderful books that we have here today.

Patricia Vieira is a social professor of Spanish

and Portuguese at Georgetown University.

And Associate research professor at the Center for Social Studies

of the University of [inaudible].

Her fields of expertise are comparative literature,

literature and philosophy, literary theory, utopian studies

and environmental studies.

She is the author of, Seeing Politics Otherwise,

Vision in Latin American and Iberian Fiction.

Portuguese Film, 1930 to 1960.

The Staging of the New State Regime and States of Grace,

Utopia in Brazilian Culture and the coeditor of several books,

including, Existential Utopia, New Prospects

of Utopian Thought, the Language of Plants, Science, Philosophy,

Literature and the Green Thread,

Dialogues with the Vegetable World.

She is published numerous academic articles in her field

of expertise, as well as op ads in the New York times,

the LA Review of Books and the European, among others.

This conversation, like I said, will be moderated

by Professor Thayse Lina, who teaches in the department

of Spanish and Portuguese at the University of Maryland.

Her areas of specialization include 19tyh century

contemporary Brazilian literature and culture,

modern Latin American literature and intellectual history,

transnationalism

and international literary circulation.

She's currently working on a book project

that traces the dialogues between Hispanic American

and Brazilian cultural

and literary critics during the second half of the 20th century,

focusing on the efforts

to integrate the two distinctly tried traditions

of Latin America.

I would also like to add

that Thayse has been here several times to work

on her book and I look forward to seeing you here next --

soon, to present that book here as well.

Her articles and book reviews have appeared in journals,

such as Hispania, Brazil, Brazil, Literature America

and Portuguese Literary and Cultural Studies.

Please join me in welcoming Thayse

and Patricia to this presentation.

[ Applause ]

>> Patricia Vieira: Well, good afternoon, everyone.

I'd like to first of all thank Dr. Talia Guzman

and the Hispanic division for the opportunity to be here

and to talk to you a bit about my most recent book.

And to thank Dr. Thayse Lina for accepting to moderate the debate

and to talk a bit about the book later on.

And I would like to start with a few words

about the Brazilian elections.

Those of you who are even a bit interested in Brazil,

probably have followed the elections

that took place this last Sunday and I think in the context

of those elections it becomes more important than ever

to reflect upon utopia and the two candidates

who will face each other in the second round of the elections

at the end of the mouth.

Jair Balsonaro and Fernando Haddad, they both, of course,

presents two almost diametrically opposed views

of Brazil.

One a very nationalistic and tradition

and even authoritarian vision of the country

and the other one the dream of a kind

of a more egalitarian Brazil that would be more open

to external influences.

That I would argue that both candidates go back to some

of the utopian themes that have shaped the history of Brazil

and Brazilian thought throughout the centuries.

And just as an example, Balsonaro draws heavily

on the messianic tradition that I discuss in the book.

I don't know if all of you know,

but his middle name is actually the Portuguese for Messiah,

[inaudible], and he often presents himself as this savior

who is going to come and lead the country to a golden age

of security and of stability, even if this comes at the cost

of embracing past racial and gender hierarchies.

And, of course, of cementing some of the economic disparities

that have plagued Brazil.

Haddad's platform on the other hand goes back to the promise

of social political and economic justice that has been one

of the key tenants of one Brazilian utopianism

as I discussed in the book.

And, so, even though they are both very different,

both of these candidates go back to utopian ideas of Brazil

that I think we need to really analyze in order

to understand what is going on today in the country.

So, the idea to write this book, I rose precisely

from this reflection that Brazil has throughout the centuries

been a repository for Utopian aspirations.

And so that was the goal of my project, to kind of go back

to these utopian aspirations

that have shaped what Brazil is today.

An Example of this is Thomas More's book, Utopia,

and you have the copy of I believe the first edition

of Thomas More's Utopia, from 1516.

And in this book and in Thomas More's utopia, of course,

the word utopia was coined,

right and in this book Thomas More, British writer,

he imagines an island that would be more perfect

than the England of his kind.

And use of this island supposedly was brought

to Thomas More by a Portuguese sailor called Raphael.

And you can see here he's alluding

to the Portuguese voyages to Africa, to Asia, and especially

to the Americas, right?

this is a map, of course, fictional map

of the fictional island of utopia from the end

of the 16th century based on Thomas More's book.

So, More he never really specified the coordinates

of his imaginary island of Utopia.

But he did write that it was located somewhere

in the New World.

And given that I was first visited by a Portuguese sailor,

we can imagine that maybe More had the land that is now Brazil

in mind when he wrote about this island of Utopia, right.

The Utopian drive became part of Brazil's cultural

and intellectual DNA from the arrival

from the first Portuguese sailors and settlers onwards.

The regions environment was often compared to paradise,

because it was so lush and bountiful.

And even Brazil's pre-Columbian inhabitants were first regarded

as very amicable and friendly.

Of course, this then this perception then changed

as colonization progressed.

But early Brazil was seen

by European explorers as utopia realized.

This is a painting called, The First Mass in Brazil,

by a painter from the romantic period.

I think it's from 1861, this painting,

and the painter is Victor Meirelles.

And you can see here some of the things I'm talking about.

So, the lush environment, the large trees.

You have, of course, the religious element,

you have the soldiers also there.

And then you have

in the foreground the native Brazilian population,

which looks on, they look on with interest

and without any sort of animosity

at the colonizers, right?

One of the most powerful utopian forces

that really led settlers --

well, that led settlers to establish themselves in Brazil

in the beginning was, of course, an economic reason, right?

Brazil at first there was lots of money made

through the selling of sugar produced in Brazil in Europe,

so the cane plantations were the first large scale economic

practice in Brazil.

Then there was the gold rush in Brazil, which was another seen

as an easy path to enrichment, right, so, again,

this utopian idea that if you go

to Brazil you'll get money easily

and you'll get rich easily.

This is a picture from the 1980s

by Brazilian photographer, Sebastiao Salgado.

And, so mining continues to be an important activity

in Brazil to this day.

This is in [inaudible], which is in the southern part of Prada,

so in the northern area of Brazil.

And then another moment where there was this idea

of easy enrichment in Brazil with the so called Rubber Boom

in the Amazon in the late 19th, early 20th century,

where the sale of latex in Europe,

because rubber was needed to produce,

among other things, tires for cars.

So, people extracted latex from the rubber trees in the Amazon

and that created prodigious wealth

in the Amazon reason, right?

So, my point is that various moments

in its history Brazil was seen of a kind of El Dorado,

where you could just go and get rich very easily

without too much work.

But, these economic considerations I think do not

exhaust the utopian aura of Brazil.

The idea that Brazil is an economic El Dorado goes hand

in hand with the idea that also social politically Brazil can

point the way to the future.

There is an Austrian author called Stefan Zweig,

who titled his book from the 1940s, Precisely Brazil,

a Country of the Future.

And in this book, which we also have therefore you

to see afterwards, he contrasts the racism that was prevalent

in Europe at the time he was writing during the Second

World War.

And so he contrasts the situation in Europe

that was engulfed in racial bigotry with the situation

in Brazil that he sees as the prototype for human relations

in the rest of the globe.

Of course, he might have a somewhat rosy picture

of what Brazil was, but he believed that the country

and this is a quote from his book, "Is destined to become one

of the most important factors

in the future development of our world."

And he continues by writing about Brazil,

"I knew that I had glimpsed the future of our world."

And he says, "Brazil gave me the feeling of living in a process

of becoming, in what is to come, in the future."

And, so, this idea of Brazil as being a country of the future

that points the way to how our future might look like remains

to this day and I think became very much a part

of the country's identity.

To this day Brazilian politicians, economists,

scholars and so on, speculate

about whether the country will be able to live

up to its promise of being a country of the future enough

and this is very much at play also in the electoral race

in the rhetoric of both candidates.

So, In States of Grace, in this book that I have just published,

I traced how this idea of Brazil as a utopian land was reworked

by Brazilian intellectuals at various moments

in the country's history.

And my first step was where the messianic writings

of Jesuit priest, Antonio Vieira, whom you can see here,

are preaching to Brazilian Indians, pointing, of course,

to heaven, right, which is -- it's very interesting that,

of course, the indigenous population is seen as close

to the ground and they have to somehow rise up spiritually

in the direction of heaven, right?

So, this was my first step in the book and the utopian moment

in his writings is that he believes that the colonization

of Brazil was the first -- not the colonization,

the colonization and the evangelization

or the Christianization of Brazil was going

to be the first step

of Christianization of the entire world.

And this conversion of the entire world

to Catholicism would herald the second coming of Christ,

who would establish a millenarian kingdom

of peace on Earth.

So, you can see the utopian undertones of his thought here.

Another moment I explored in the book was the perception

of the Amazon and you have here a beautiful image

of the Amazon during the time of the flood

when the river is very full, right?

So, the Amazon has also been perceived as a utopian space,

both by Brazilians and by foreign explorers who project

onto the Amazon their ideas of social and political justice.

I also discussed in the book the close relationship

between Brazilian culture and the environment

as a source of utopianism.

Brazil, as you all know, is rightly so associated

to biodiversity and Brazilian writers have often imagined

alternative relationships to animals and plants

that would not be predicated on just exploitation.

And then a final topic I discussed

in the book was the conception of Brazil

as a society of leisure.

And while colonizers often criticized the work ethics

of native Brazilians, Brazilian intellectuals have come

to imagine leisure and even laziness

as a positive Brazilian trait that distinguishes Brazil

from other countries in Europe and in North America.

And according to this view of Brazil, the country's laziness

or leisurely way of life, heralds a future time

when machines will do all the work and we will be able

to devote ourselves to leisurely pursuits, such as,

for instance, artistic pursuits.

Right? This is a clip from a 1969 film titled Macunaima,

by Joaquim Pedro de Andrade, and Macunaima,

who is said to be the hero of Brazil, the hero of our people,

as it is said in the book, he was defined by his laziness,

he was extremely lazy, didn't like to work at all.

And here you see him lying in a hammock

where he spends a lot of time.

And the film is in and of itself a rework of a novel published

in 1928 by Mario de Adnrade, modernist writer.

Also called Macunaima.

And also in the novel Macunaima is extremely lazy

and has his brothers do most of the work.

And this is again seen as something positive,

so it's not criticized in the book.

It's seen as a positive trait and it's almost

as if Brazilian intellectuals were embracing a criticism

that is also often leveled against Brazilians, right,

that Brazilians are lazy, they don't like doing too much work.

And, so, these intellectuals were saying, yes,

but this is a good thing that we resist doing work

that in fact leads nowhere.

Right, so, this is another moment of utopianism

that I explored in the book.

So, positing Brazil as this country of the future,

as some of these utopias do, creates a kind of a gap

between Brazil's present reality as a country

that has a certain set of limitations

and the utopian expectations that we place up on Brazil.

And this so called, we could call it even a cognizant

dissonance between reality as it is and reality as we would

like it to be creates a problem that Brazilians respond to,

I would think, in two different ways.

On the one hand the significance of utopia

for Brazilian identity contributes

to what has been called oofanista [phonetic

spelling] attitude.

Oofanista means just proud or self-congratulatory.

And, so, often in -- if you espouse this attitude,

you tend to disregard Brazil's problems and to believe

that Brazil is the greatest nation on Earth,

surpassing even the wildest utopian expectations.

This is the main argument of a book titled,

Why I Am Proud of My Country.

In Portuguese, [speaking foreign language], published in 1900.

And in this book by Alfonso Selsu,

the author really just lavishes praise on Brazil

as the greatest country on Earth and it says

if Brazil is really utopia realized.

And this mindset has resurfaced at several moments

in Brazil's cultural history.

For instance, during the period of modernismo,

which I already modernism, which I already talked about.

Some of the factions that emerged during this period,

they really had a radically nationalistic oofanista agenda

that advocated the superiority of Brazilian values

and of the Brazilian way of being in the world.

This segment of modernism was associated

with far right political movements, such as integralism

and this is a picture

of Brazilian integralists demonstrating.

And then some of these values of integralism then fed

into the nationalism

of [inaudible] totalitarian new states

in the late 1930s and 1940s.

And, again, the military dictatorship that ruled Brazil

between '64 and '85 went back to some of the oofanista values,

singing the glory of the Brazilian nation.

And I would argue to a certain extent current candidate

for Brazilian presidency, [inaudible] also goes back

to some of these ideas

of oofanismal [phonetic spelling] praising a certain

version of what Brazil is as opposed to --

as opposed to a more, let's say, horizontal view

of what the country could be.

So, I'm not saying that nationalism and allegiance

to one's country is necessarily something negative,

but this excessively nationalistic oofanista attitude

often entails a racist posture and it's ultranationalism

and it's exaltation of Brazilianess often goes hand

and hand with the --

at the debasement of other nations and cultures.

And even with certain groups within the Brazilian nations,

such as afro Brazilians.

All right.

So, this is one of the paths

that utopia can follow in Brazil.

So, this cognitive dissonance between the way things are

and the way things could be can lead to this overtly --

over nationalistic attitude.

The other attitude it can produce, this disparity

between how things are and how we would like them

to be is an excessively critical and even fatalistic view

of Brazil, according to which Brazil permanently falls short

of one's expectations, right?

at the very mundane level in Brazil and those of you

who know a bit about Brazil,

remember that Brazilians keep referring to the exterior,

to the countries that are outside

as if they were much better than Brazil.

And, so, Brazil always compares negatively

to other countries, right?

And the root of this self-debasement lies

in an interpretation of Brazil as plagued by a kind

of fundamental deficiency,

and this deficiency has been identified

by different intellectuals differently.

It can be racism, it can be the profound inequality

that plagues the country, it can be corruption, for instance,

I have a cartoon that says,

"Either Brazil finishes corrupt people

or corrupt people will finish Brazil."

And, so, you have all of the corrupt people eating,

eating away at Brazil.

And again, corruption was a key issue in this Sunday's election

and will be a key issue in the second round as well, right?

So, [inaudible] is justified, of course, in identifying --

in identifying the shortcomings of Brazil

or of any other country.

Many of these shortcomings that Brazilian intellectuals identify

as a shortcoming of their country,

they're not problems of Brazil alone.

I mean, they exist in most countries in the world.

And, so, I would argue that they do not warrant this permanent

feeling of inadequacy of Brazil when compared

to its utopian potential.

Nor do they condemn Brazil to somehow lag behind

and not be a better version of itself, right?

And as we know this critical impulse was part of utopia

from the beginning, that's why Thomas More wrote his book,

Utopia, was to criticize the England of his time

and to show how it could be a better country.

So, to conclude and then I would like to hear a bit from you,

but to conclude, In States of Grace I tried to showed

that utopia determines Brazilian history from the beginning

and it is and will probably remain a central element

in Brazil's collective identity.

And, as I was discussing just now, the very nature

of utopia is to create this gap between what is

and what could be, between reality

and a better version of reality.

And Brazilian intellectuals have responded to this tension

that is part of utopianism by hovering

between the two extremes of exalted nationalism

and excessive criticism of their country.

And I think that by giving in to either of these tendencies,

Brazil risk is never really embracing the present

and never really fulfilling its utopian potential.

I think these two tendencies, this excessive nationalism

and this fatalistic criticism are easy responses to utopianism

that fail to meet the challenge of utopia.

Because in one way or the other they end up subscribing

to the current state of affairs.

Either because it's already great

or because it cannot be changed.

Right? So, both of these tendencies lead us

to stay the way we are, so they do not prompt us

to change anything.

So, I think that Brazil should reject these two paths

of excessive nationalism or excessive criticism and continue

to be open to the utopian possibilities that are woven

into the very fabric of the nation's culture.

As Brazilians prepare to vote in the second round of elections

in the end of October, I hope that they will steer clear

of both this over nationalistic attitudes and also

of a defeatist stance that only foregrounds the negative aspects

in Brazilian culture.

The ultra conservative rights represented

by Jai Balsonaro I think has been able

to capitalize very well both

on the extreme nationalist oofanista sentiment

and on a defeatist outlook of an elector that is really tired

of corruption scandals and the social violence.

So, Balsonaro has been, I think, very savvy in capitalizing

on both of these attitudes.

He, of course, always presents himself with a background

of the Brazilian national flag or dressed

in the Brazilian national colors.

Again, in line with what I was talking

about this overtly nationalistic posture.

It remains to be seen whether the left,

represented by Fernando Haddad,

can mobilize another more constructive version

of Brazilian utopianism, one that would be predicated

on social and economic justice and on environmental harmony

as a path for Brazil to live up to its utopian promise.

Thank you.

[ Applause ]

>> Thayse Lina: Hello, everyone.

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon.

Thank you very much for the Library and Talia

and also Patrice here for inviting me to discuss the book.

Personally it's been a pleasure to read the book,

because I've been wrapped around writing my own book,

so it's good to read somebody else's thoughts and ideas.

On the other hand, on the current context in Brazil,

which is to say the least is scary, it was also refreshing

to have contact with some --

with a book that is discussing something positive

for a change, which is utopia.

Even though we know that --

and I think that's what

for [inaudible] perspective is also very interesting

from your book, is that you refrain

from discussing negative utopias and you also disagree

with the idea that utopians will necessarily lead

into totalitarian systems.

So, that has been refreshing as well,

because I think very often we read books

that take a different position, which are necessary

and important to take a critical position in relation

to certain projects, right, certain national projects

in some ways you imagine the country.

But I think that the other way around has been discussed

and done to exhaustion, so I found the book very original

and very refreshing to read.

So, I'm very glad I was invited for this.

So, I think we were going to start with couple of questions,

then I'm going to open for everybody else.

One of the things that I found really interesting and new

to the book that I was talking to you before earlier

on today was that even though some of the projects

that you discuss are known and some are discussed,

they were never organized around the idea of utopia,

which I found -- it was almost this obvious thing that was

in front of, that this is permeating Brazilian history,

Brazilian intellectual history, but was never discussed

as such organized as such and I found it very interesting.

So, as you were explaining to everybody there's a lot

of utopian streaks that run through Brazilian history

and some of them are related to nature,

some of them are political, some of them are cultural,

there are messianic ones, and that is something

that it found quite new.

I never really thought about our intellectual history

through this lenses.

So, I -- one of the questions that I have for you is that,

how you went about organizing, it's such a long --

it's such a large theme and it runs through such a, you know,

basically the whole history of Brazil.

Everything, the discoveries.

How did you go about selecting what you were going to have

in the book and what you were not going to have in the book?

And I will ask you the question that I asked you earlier on,

which is, I found it interesting and I wanted to ask you,

one of the biggest, I think, the most discussed,

at least nowadays, utopians, Brazilian utopians

and also a failed utopian, right,

is the idea of racial democracy and was a tropicalism

that [inaudible] was writing in the 1930s.

[inaudible] is a Brazilian sociologist

who wrote [inaudible], I think is translated as.

Masters and Slaves.

Yeah, that's right.

so, I was wondering, I imagine the reason is

because it's been discussed to exhaustion lately, but,

I wanted you to talk a little bit more about this process

of what going about selecting what you were going to put

and what you were going to exclude from the book.

>> Patricia Vieira: Okay, that's --

it's actually a very good question and I struggled

with what I was going to include for a long time.

First of all, to the first half of the question, of course,

this utopian streak is not something that is part only

of Brazil, but it's really part of most American nations,

because the idea was that Europeans would come

to the new world and this very concept of the world being new,

of course, it was not new, there were people here before.

But the conception when the Europeans arrived with this

that they were arriving at kind of a blank slate

where they could start anew and avoid the mistakes

that they had made in Europe.

So, the idea that they could create a better society

in the New World and the every publication

of Thomas More's Utopia is indebted to this idea,

because finally you had a new world

where you could project all of these dreams of social,

political and economic emancipation

that you could no longer think of in Europe because Europe was

so corrupt and decadent and so on and so on.

So, the very concept of a New World is what made

utopia possible.

So, utopia became part of the makeup of American nations,

much more than it was of European nations.

And in the case of Brazil, as you were saying,

I think what struck me is that even though it's so much a part

of Brazilian history, it hadn't been studied systemically

and there were a few articles here and there about utopia

and especially the utopias in Brazil.

But there was not a systematic study

of how utopia had impacted Brazilian thought.

And, so, that was what I tried to do.

And I selected -- I didn't want to study books

that were utopias, in the sense

that they presented alternative visions of reality.

That was not my main goal.

My main goal was really to study utopian thought

as it presented itself, either in literature or in books

that were -- books of sociology, essays and so on

and that had become key to thinking what Brazil is today.

And, so, I went about studying this --

and selecting the key moments.

I wanted to key moments in Brazilian history

that on the one hand would be representative

of utopian thoughts in Brazil,

so I needed to include messianism, for instance,

as the root of utopian thinking in Brazil.

So, the -- like the theological base

from which posterior utopia is developed.

So, that was something I knew had to be there.

And then I tried to select other moments

that would be representative.

So, I wanted to have one chapter on the environment as a utopia,

so that was also for sure.

The part on leisure I was also absolutely sure I wanted

to write about.

Now, the issue of race could have been another chapter

in the book, but as you mentioned, it's something

that has been studied a lot in Brazil, so I thought

that I was not going to be able to say anything as new

on utopia, on racial democracy as I could say on other topics.

So, that's why I kind of bracketed it.

I also didn't mention, as we were talking before,

I could have written a chapter on the issue of the reworking

of messanism in the beginning of the 20th century

with [inaudible] writing about this issue.

But, again, I decided against it,

because so much scholarship has been produced on this

that in the end I thought I wouldn't be able

to add anything very substantive to the topic.

But, so, yes, I wanted to have key moments in utopianism

in Brazil and how it has changed and evolved,

especially in the 20th century.

So that was the rationale behind the choice of the chapters.

>> Thayse Lina: One more thing that I --

after your presentation I was thinking

about what you just said and how --

obviously as I was reading the book I couldn't help

but to think about the moment that we are going on right now

in Brazil and I was really glad that you brought it

up in your presentation.

I was surprised and I've never really thought

about Balsonaro representing somehow, like,

or I've never really thought about how he brings back some

of the utopias that you discussed or representing

or presenting some sort of utopian view for the Brazilians,

because so much of what he says is associated

with actually fear and, right, and he's running

through this fear and that's how constructed his platform

and his discourse.

But it's certainly something refreshing.

It made me think about something else.

What it made me think about is that most of the times

when you're talking about utopia we think about --

you're thinking with the intellectual lead of Brazil

and they dream of what the country could be

and the confrontation with the realities of it, right?

That since all of these actually fall short,

because these utopias are actually rethinking core

problems of the country, which are inequality, racial injustice

and so on and so forth.

So, we always feel like it's falling short

of fixing those problems, right?

But as I was thinking about it, I was thinking I had

to actually recheck my position on Balsonato, at least,

not on Balsonato, but on the people that are voting for him,

because I think in light of what happened two days ago,

49 million people voted for him.

You ask yourself, what people are thinking, like,

they really condone these ideas

and are they really supportive of this.

Or is actually what is moving them is something else,

it's that they believe

that somehow disregarding all the violent threats

that is coming from this candidate,

he somewhat offers a view of the country

that they actually think it's important possible.

So, my question, I think, is it has to do

with this disconnect perhaps

and if you think there is a disconnection

between what the Brazilian elites imagine about Brazil --

and I'm sorry I go back to [inaudible],

because I think it's kind of like a poignant example of that,

but you can see it in other ones as well.

I mean, and the idea of coming together that you see

in Macunaima, the ideas of community

and the [inaudible] community, it's also there.

So, if there is a disconnect between the dreams of the elite

and the dreams of the people out there,

the ones that we're not studying or reading or having access to,

but it's more your opinion about it, I guess.

>> Patricia Vieira: I think --

I think to a certain extent there is a disconnect,

but I think to a certain extent also the elites are responding

to something that is in the country.

Let me make this more concrete.

In the case of the current elections I don't think there is

so much of a disconnect between Balsonaro

and the Brazilian elites and the country.

I think he really embodies many of the ideas

that have been latent in Brazil throughout -- for centuries.

Again, the fact that he presents himself as a savior

of the country, who is going to bring stability,

peace, prosperity and so on.

This was a discourse, messianic discourse that has been part

of Brazil for centuries and is described very well

by [inaudible] in the Back Lands when he talks

about Antonio [inaudible] and why people voted for him.

I mean, it's shocking, but people in many

of the Brazilian slums or villas, he won, so the people

that are going to be more impacted

by his policies are voting for him exactly

because he has been very clever at appropriating some

of these cultural tropes, some of these cultural themes are

that are so much part of Brazilian history

and of the way Brazilians think about themselves.

And I think this is why he has been so successful.

And, on the other hand, he has also capitalized on this feeling

of discontent that is also, as I was saying,

also comes out of this idea that you're never able to live

up to the utopian promise as a Brazilian purpose.

And, so, you're always falling short

and he has capitalized on this.

He's saying, "I'm going to overcome this,

we will not fall short of Brazil's promise,

but we will tackle these problems

and we will overcome them."

Right? So, I think he has been a very smart politician.

I don't know if he has done this more or less without thinking

or if his team of advisors have really thought this through,

but the fact of the matter is he has used cultural elements

that have been very prevalent in Brazilian thought

and he has used them to his advantage in a way

that I think the left has been unable to do

and that's why he won.

So, it's not that he's the candidate of the elites

and the people didn't vote for him.

No, the people actually voted for him,

it was not just the Brazilian elite,

so I think this division here doesn't apply

because he has really been selected.

I mean, if anything, there is a geographic imbalance,

because I think the only region that did not vote

for him was the northeast for historical reasons,

Lula being very popular in the northeast and so on.

>> Thayse Lina: I think I was thinking more

about the enlightened midcentury elite and the dreams

of the country coming together and being more egalitarian.

And that's actually something

that is lacking on his discourse.

But I appreciate what you're saying

about how he actually has conquered the support

of the elites and in some parts of the population

that would be directly affected

by what he's bringing to his candidacy.

I don't know if I should -- we should open to questions now

or if I -- I want to give people the opportunity

to ask her questions too.

I have a lot of questions.

>> I have a question or two.

[inaudible].

First, thank you for the presentation.

Is it possible for me --

when you're talking about this [inaudible], for example,

of the [inaudible] we have in this [inaudible] of some sort

of utopia, you know, [inaudible].

First, I have a curiosity about [inaudible] and the role

that she plays in this utopian thought

and how do you use her book, particularly the [inaudible] GH

that we have here in this place,

I would like to hear your thoughts on it

and how you represent her in your book.

And another one is I wonder if in your studies

for this book you came across this idea

of utopian thought coming from indigenous [inaudible].

We've heard of how Europeans sort of rigged this idea

of utopia with them and then it's reworked

through other moments by Brazilians themselves, you know,

[inaudible] later on and the mid-19th century.

But I'm wondering if in your studies as a [inaudible],

the utopia from [inaudible]?

>> Patricia Vieira: Oh great.

Those are great questions.

So, first about the utopia from sources

that are not literature or essays and so on.

Of course, perhaps the most obvious one would be the

construction of Brasilia in the 1960s as this utopian moment

of creating a space that would be completely new and modern.

So, again, this attempt of Brazil to catch

up with the future, right, and utopia is very --

Brazil is very futuristic in its architecture as you --

those of you who know it can probably imagine the center

of Brasilia as this attempt really

to create the utopian space concretely, architecturally.

Then [inaudible], so I read her book

through what I call interspecies literature,

and this is my new project I'm working on, literature

and the environment and how we can think of literature

as a space where we give voice to non-human beings

and how non-human beings plants, animals impact literary --

literature and writings and also cinema.

So, that's how I try to read, The Passion According to GH,

how the animal in the story impacts the very writing

of the story.

So, that's through there.

And about the indigenous cultures,

whether utopia is also part of Brazilian indigenous thought,

I haven't read too much anthropological studies,

but there is the concept of the land without evil in [inaudible]

in indigenous Brazilian and throughout the Americas

and I forget, I don't know if any

of you are an anthropologist, there is even a group

of Brazilian indigenous peoples who used to go

on a pilgrimage every few years looking for this land

without evil, so they would just --

they were settled in a specific place

and they would just take off and go look for this land

without evil that has been compared

to the Christian paradise.

And, so, the idea is presence in indigenous thought.

I mean, one might argue that utopia in

and of itself is part of human culture.

That in one form or another, it might not be called utopia

because other cultures might not have a name for this idea,

which western culture did not have a name for utopia

until Thomas More published Utopia.

But the idea of something better than the current state

of affairs is very much a part of human cultures throughout,

so it would not be surprising that it exists, you know,

in Native American thoughts and, of course, in Asian literature,

it's full of utopia -- examples of what we call utopia

in the west, so, yeah.

Any other questions or comments.

[ Inaudible Speaker ]

>> I kind have a question, but I want to make sure

that if I ask it doesn't misunderstand your first part

of the lecture.

So, and also I want to reiterate what you just asked,

but you mentioned agriculture -- not agriculture,

but environmentalism and the connection with [inaudible]

and [inaudible] and this kind of view

that now Amazon is bringing us this [inaudible].

So, how do we reconcile the forced labor

that was brought upon by the rubber movement?

At least in my experience is studying Peru in the Amazon

and there was what be [inaudible] genocide

because of the rubber move,

so how does this utopian narrative kind

of reconcile itself with finding a better purpose

and better society when there's --

it's paved the way by [inaudible]?

>> Patricia Vieira: Right, right.

Yeah, so, what I was saying is that this utopian image

of Brazil has been very much connected with natural resources

that were very abundant in Brazil.

Of course, no one ever reflected how those were going

to be extracted, which was mostly by either slave labor

or later forced labor.

But, so, from a perspective of the outsiders who were going

to colonize Brazil, this was one of the main attractions

that you could go to Brazil and just get wealthy very quickly,

because that country was just so rich in natural resources,

so that was the utopian moment there.

In the Amazon, more specifically, in my chapter

about the Amazon, what I studied was really the myth

of the amazons, which are -- it's what gave the name Amazon

to the Amazon and these were just some female warriors

from classical Greece that when the first colonizers went

to the Amazon they thought

that they saw these women there along with the river.

So, they gave the name the river of the Amazons to the Amazon

and that's where the name comes from.

So, later on, in the beginning of the 20th century,

this group of women was -- there are several books of literature

that present this group of women as a utopian society.

And, so, there are stories such as, you know,

outsider enters the Amazon, gets lost, goes to the tribe

of the amazons and realizes they live a great life

where everyone is equal and people share the burden

of work and so and so.

They are presented as this utopian society that contrasts

with the inequalities of the rest of Brazil.

So, that's the utopian moment.

And, of course, this is located in the Amazon, because it's

that open space of possibility where anything can happen

because it's just so huge.

Yeah.

>> How is utopian is the [inaudible] and shared labor

and that sort of thing, how do you then [inaudible]

with authoritarian control?

I mean, how was he able to create this narrative,

is it simply just harkening back to the good old days or --

because I always thought it had to have this future goal?

How is this [inaudible] able to square [inaudible]?

>> Patricia Vieira: Yeah, no, I think you're right.

There are different strands of utopianism in Brazil.

So, one of them is this egalitarian horizontal view

of society that is present, for instance, in the conception

of laziness and leisure, Brazil as a country, that is able

to provide for everyone so people won't have

to work and so and so on.

So, that's one strand.

Now the messianic strands of utopian, which comes directly

from theology, always has an authoritarian streak to it.

even if we think about one

of the most famous messianic real life experiments in Brazil,

which was described, as I mentioned, by [inaudible]

in the Back Lands, famous book, which [inaudible] Brazil

where he describes a community living

in the back lands of Brazil.

The leader of this community, Antonio [inaudible],

he was what we would call today really an authoritarian leader

within this community, right?

So, I think that [inaudible] harks back

to that particular strand of utopian thought that goes back

to the messianic tradition and to authoritarianism

within the messianic tradition, right?

And what I was suggesting is that I think he has been able

to activate something that has been part of a Brazilian culture

for a very long time, which is this thinking of messianism

and the savior that will come and make everything right.

And this savior often has authoritarian characteristics.

I mean, historically.

And so people tend to accept his authoritarianism

because there are other examples in Brazilian history of this.

And, so, it jus t-- he falls back onto something

that already exists in the culture and that's why, I think,

he's so accepted and so popular really.

>> Maybe we have time for one more questions?

>> Thayse Lina: I do.

>> Patricia Vieira: One last time.

>> Thayse Lina: I think that I was talking to you about it

that -- and I think I'm going to kind of recuperate some

of your questions in a certain way.

It was impossible for me to read a book about utopianism and not

to think -- not about necessarily negative utopia,

which would be kind of like an apocalyptical thoughts and --

right, and it would fall into nihilism.

But mostly about this disconnect that you see between this dreams

of a better more egalitarian country, and the reality that --

does these authors were themselves experiencing

at the time that they were writing.

And what is interesting is that not only that I understand that

and you make it very clear in the introduction

that utopias are not necessarily to be --

to become a reality or to be, right, put to work in actuality,

at least not in the intellectual tradition that you are studying.

They are supposed to work as a north, right, to be aspired to

and that we are going towards.

But, to recuperating what people were saying is,

especially if you're looking at Brazil from the outside,

it always -- it doesn't only feel like a disconnection

between reality and thoughts and dreams, but it also seems

that this very reality, or the dreams

of this more utopian future are sometimes trying

to fix that reality, right?

Trying to create like another or to encompass that problem

or that they're seeing there and to do something else with it.

I think that it becomes really clear in the utopians

of leisure, which is in a way a revolt against, right,

or protest against the imposition

or the necessity of work, right?

So, I wonder if at any point

when you're writing these ideas were there with you, you know,

thinking about how there is this contrast?

>> Patricia Vieira: Yeah, that's a great question

and I think that's the main criticism against utopia

and the argument that utopia sometimes leads

to authoritarianism goes back to that.

That in order to achieve the utopian goal, anything goes.

So you can do anything politically

because you have a goal that you need to achieve.

That was the problem, for instance,

of communism as a system.

A political system that -- how is it --

the ends justified the means, right?

So, when I was studying utopianism in Brazil I worked

with a different notion of utopia that I called

in another book I co-edited a few years ago,

existential utopia.

And, so, by existential utopia, I mean,

utopia not as a goal that's somehow hovers above

and beyond society in the future, but as the utopia

as something that is imbedded in every day practices, right?

And that's why, for instance, I think utopia is related

to the environment are so powerful,

because the environment is something you encounter

on an everyday basis.

It's not something out there.

And, again, issues of leisure.

People work every day, they experience labor every day,

so utopias of leisure are not something

that somehow could exist in somewhere

in a very distance future, but they are something that speaks

to our realities in the present.

And I think that's the only way that a concept, such as the one

of utopia, can still be relevant today, is if we think about it

as operative on an everyday basis and not as something

that we should really try to reach sometime in the future

and that ends up being almost oppressive in the present.

So, to the country I think utopias should make us feel

uncomfortable in the present, but in a good way.

Showing us that the present can be better, but not as some sort

of an ideal that we always have to match and we can never match.

But as the kind of making us slightly --

how I should put this --

slightly uncomfortable where we sit knowing

that we could be a bit better, right?

So, I think that's the kind of utopia

that is valuable politically today, right,

a utopia that makes us see that things could be better,

but that doesn't dictate how they necessarily need to go

and how you necessarily need for them to be better, right?

>> Thayse Lina: Thank you.

>> Patricia Vieira: Okay, thank you.

>> Thank you.

>> Patricia Vieira: Thank you.

Không có nhận xét nào:

Đăng nhận xét