THIS BILL
OVER FOR POSSIBLE INCLUSION IN THE
OMNIBUS BILL. >> [GAVEL] >> CHAI
R MARIANI: WITH THAT REPRESENTATIVE MOLLER WE ALSO HAVE YOUR BILL HOUSE
FILE 418 AND I THINK I'M GOING TO GET
THIS CORRECT.. THAT
YOUR MOTION IS THAT THIS BILL BE REFERRED TO THE WAYS AND MEANS
COMMITTEE WITH A RECOMMENDATION THAT IT
BE REFERRED TO THE COMMITTEE ON
GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS.
DID I GET THE RED? >>
REPRESENTATIVE MOLLER: YES. THAT
SOUNDS CORRECT >>
CHAIR MARIANI: REPRESENTATIVE JAMAAL ARE SO
MOOSE. REPRESENTATIVE ALLEN
HOUSE FILE 418 IS THE FIRST GOOD REPRESENTATIVE JIM MUELLER YOU HAVE A DELETE ALL AMENDMENT
THE D
DE --TWO AMENDMENT. IS HE YOUR INTENT TO MOVE THAT AMENDMENT AT THIS TIME? >> REPRESENTATIVE MOLLER: IT
IS NOT AT THIS POINT MR. CHAIR BUT WE WILL NOT BE MOVING THE DELETE DE --TWO AMENDMENT
>> CHAIR MARIANI:
VERY WELL. HOUSE FILE 418 IS THE WORST REPRESENTATIVE JIM MUELLER >> REPRESENTATIVE MOLLER: THANK YOU; MR. CHAIR MEMBERS
AS FILE 418 IS REALLY JUST BEGINNING OF THE CONVERSATION HERE AND ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT
AS WERE MOVING FORWARD AND HOW
WE CAN ADDRESS SEXUAL ASSAULT ISSUES IN THE STATE IS TO LOOK AT OUR CRIMINAL SEXUAL CONDUCT
STATUTE. THE PURPOSE OF THIS BILL IS GREAT A
WORKING GROUP TO REALLY EXAMINE OUR CRIMINAL
SEXUAL CONDUCT STATUES ARE WORKING OR NOT WORKING AND LOOK AT REWRITING ALL OF
THOSE STATUTES.
TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY THIS
IS NECESSARY; OVER THE YEARS; THE STATUTE HAS
BEEN AMENDED TIME AND
TIME AGAIN
THAT EVEN THE LAST COUPLE OF HEARINGS WE HAVE HEARD ABOUT SOME OF THE SITUATIONS THAT ARE NOT COVERED BY STATUTE WHICH WE THINK SHOULD BE COVERED. WHETHER
THE EXCLUSIONS LIKE
MARITAL RAPE; [INAUDIBLE] A TEACHER HAVING SEX WITH
18-YEAR-OLD STUDENTS
REPRESENTATIVE MILLER YOU MADE A POINT AT THE HEARING THE OTHER DAY BUT YOU HATED
THE LOOPHOLES IN THESE CASES AND IT SEEMS LIKE WE ARE JUST COSTLY FIXING THESE LOOPHOLES
AND WHAT HAPPENS IS AS
A RESULT THE STATUTES HAVE BECOME
VERY UNWIELDY. WITH SEXUAL CONTACT
THERE'S THREE SEPARATE DEFINITIONS OF SEXUAL CONTACT DEPENDING ON WHAT
CHARGING PROVISIONS
ARE USING. IT'S GOTTEN VERY COMPLICATED.
WHEN WE ARE JUST COMING BACK AND
TRYING TOCLOSE
THESE LOOPHOLES IT SEEMS THAT
WE ARE DENYING VICTIMS JUSTICE AND WE NOT HOLDING OFFENDERS ACCOUNTABLE.
HERE'S ANOTHER LOOPHOLE I
WANTED TO EXPLAIN TO YOU. SO THE MINNESOTA SUPREME COURT
AND SO THIS SUMMER OF 2018 ISSUED
A DECISION
IN THE ORTEGA RODRIGUEZ CASE AND IN
THAT CASE REVERSED A FIRST-DEGREE CRIMINAL SEXUAL CONDUCT
CONVICTION INVOLVING THE ABUSE OF A 10-YEAR-OLD
OVER THE COURSE OF SEVERAL MONTHS
IN THE COURT HELD THAT THE
STATUTE REQUIRED THAT PENETRATION
OF HER AND THAT THE GENITAL CONTACT TO GENITAL CONTACT IS NOT ENOUGH. THERE ACTUALLY HAD TO BE PENETRATION.
SO THAT HIGHLIGHTS YET ANOTHER LOOPHOLE IN OUR LAW AND WORKING ON LEGISLATION TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE
BUT IT ALSO SHOWS THE BROADER CONCERN OF CASES THAT I'VE SEEN AS A PROSECUTOR ESPECIALLY IN CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE CASES WHERE WE ARE ASKING CHILDREN TO DESCRIBE
IF THERE IS CONTACT
OR PENETRATION AND FOUR CHILDREN TO BE
ABLE TOKNOW THAT HAPPENED
ARTICULATE THAT IS ACTUALLY DIFFICULT IN A LOT OF OUR LAWS
MAKE US ASKED CHILDREN THESE KINDS OF DETAILED QUESTIONS. SO THAT'S JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF AN AREA THAT I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE
LOOKED AT. I HAVE
SEVERAL TESTIFIERS HERE THAT ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF
THE CHANGES
THAT SHERRY -- IF YOU WANT TO COME UP; IS
A PROSECUTO
R I WORKED WITH HER FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS SHE'S GOT A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE ON THIS ISSUE. >> CHAIR MARIANI: VERY WELL.
REPRESENTATIVE MOLLER WHEN WE ASK THE OTHERS TO
COME UP AND BE AT LEAST
NEARBY BECAUSE WERE PRESSED FOR TIME
>> REPRESENTATIVE MOLLER: THAT WOULD BE GREAT GET THE OTHER TESTIFIERS ARE LINDY RACE FROM MN-CASA
WITH [INAUDIBLE] FROM SURVIVING SO CERT AND MEGAN ARIELLA IS
A SURVIVOR AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE A NOTE ABOUT SURVIVORS. I DID
LET SOME ORGANIZATIONS KNOW THAT OUR COMMITTEE IS ALWAYS WANTING
TO HEAR FROM VICTIM AND SURVIVORS AND SO THE MICROPHONE IS ALWAYS OPEN TO HEAR ABOUT THESE CASES BUT WE REALLY APPRECIATE
MS. -- COMING AND TALKING TO US BUT WE WANT TO HEAR YOUR VOICES AND SO
ANY OF THESE BILLS THAT WE ARE DISCUSSING AND I THINK I SPEAK ON BEHALF OF MY OTHER COMMITTEE MEMBERS AS WELL; PLEASE; ALWAYS FEEL FREE TO SHARE THIS CONCERNS WITH US. AND YOU FOR COMING >> CHAIR MARIANI: THANK YOU REPRESENTATIVE JIM MUELLER.
[INAUDIBLE] FOR MS. THOMPSON WELCOME TO THE COMMITTEE.
>> TESTIFIER: THANK YOU. MY
NAME IS [INAUDIBLE]
RESCUED WITH HENNEPIN COUNTY'S ATTORNEY'S OFFICE BUT
I'M CURRENTLY A SENIOR ASSISTANT AT THE COUNTY ATTORNEYS AND I SUPERVISE CHILD ABUSE PROSECUTION IN ADDITION TO ONE OF OUR DULL PROSECUTION AND
HAVE A TRIAL TEAM AS ALWAYS BEEN MY PRIVILEGE OVER THE YEARS WORKING IN HENNEPIN COUNTY TO BE
ABLE TO WORK WITH ANY NUMBER OF SURVIVORS OF
SEXUAL ASSAULT BE IT ADULT OR
CHILD SURVIVORS. I
HAVE WORKED AT HENNEPIN COUNTY ATTY.'S OFFICE AS A PROSECUTOR FOR SEVEN YEARS. BEEN WORKING AS
A PROSECUTORFOR 20
YEARS TOTAL INCLUDING WORKING AT THE MINNESOTA ATTY. GEN.'S OFFICE
AND THE DAKOTA COUNTY
ATTY.'S OFFICE. SO
ALL TOLD; IN MY YEARS OF EXPENSE
I'VE HAD SO MANY OPPORTUNITIES AND PRIVILEGES TO WORK WITH NUMEROUS
VICTIMS OF
SEXUAL ASSAULT AND TO NAVIGATE SOME OF
THE STATUTORY ISSUES THAT WE HAVE SEXUAL ASSAULT CASES. I WOULD
NOTE THAT
REPRESENTATIVE MOLLER ASKED THAT I BE HERE TODAY TO TALK A LITTLE
BIT ABOUT JUST A COUPLE OF EXPENSES THAT HAVE HAD AS A PROSECUTOR
DOING WITH SOME OF THE
LEGISLATIVE CHALLENGES THAT THERE ARE IN
RELATION TO THE BILL THAT SHE
HAS PROPOSED
TO DO A FULL REVIEW OF THOSE. I HAVE TWO
CIRCUMSTANCES THAT ARE LIKE TO SPEAK WITH THE COMMITTEE ABOUT TODAY IN GENERAL.
FIRST OF ALL I LIKE TO JUST SPEAK ABOUT
THE ISSUE THAT REPRESENTATIVE MOLLER JUST TALK ABOUT
WITH THE ORTEGA RODRIGUEZ CASE THAT WAS
JUST RECENTLY
DECIDED BY THE MINNESOTA SUPREME COURT.
IS THIS COMMITTEE MAY BE AWARE;
THE DEFINITION
IN CASES INVOLVING CRIMINAL SEXUAL CONDUCT IN THE 1ST°;
CONDUCT THAT INVOLVES
SEXUAL PENETRATION IS PENALIZED IN ADDITION TO CONDUCT INVOLVING CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF 13
WHEN IT IS THERE
THEY ARE GENITAL TO GENITAL CONTACT AND MY ANDERSON IS THAT LEGISLATION
THAT THE ADDITION OF THE BEAR GENITAL TO GENITAL CONTACT
WAS THAT MANY YEARS AGO THAT LEGISLATION WENT THROUGH
BECAUSE OF THE EXPERIENCES THAT
CHILDREN HAVE CERTAINLY
CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF 13; IN
DESCRIBING PENETRATION. AS REPRESENTATIVE
MOLLER INDICATED; AS PROSECUTORS; WE
ARE OFTEN IN A POSITION
OF HAVING TO TALK WITH THE
MOST VULNERABLE
OF SURVIVORS ABOUT THE MOST DIFFICULT
AND CHALLENGING
OF EXPERIENCES THAT THEY HAVE IN PARTICULAR;
WITH CHILDREN IT PRESENTS A CHALLENGE
BECAUSE CHILDREN ARE PLACED IN A POSITION TO DESCRIBE ACTS THAT THEY SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT IN THE
FIRST PLACE.
CERTAINLY; THE ISSUE OF
SEXUAL PENETRATION IS AN
EXTREMELY DIFFICULT CIRCUMSTANCE FOR A CHILD OF
ANY AGE TO DESCRIBE BUT CERTAINLY
AS THE LEGISLATION REFLECTS THE AGE OF 13 OR UNDER THE AGE
OF 13; TO DESCRIBE WHAT THAT MEANS
; CERTAIN BODY PARTS AND HOW THOSE BO
DY PARTS WERE INVOLVED IN WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM IS VERY DIFFICULT. SO
THAT LEGISLATION
WHERE IT DESCRIBES FIRST-DEGREE CRIMINAL SEXUAL CONDUCT CAN INVOLVE NOT
ONLY PENETRATION
BUT THEIR GENERAL TWO TO GENITAL CONTACT IS
EXTRAORDINARILY HELPFUL FOR PROSECUTING CASES
INVOLVING CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE
OF 13. THE ISSUE THAT'S
PRESENTED ITSELF IN THE ORTEGA RODRIGUEZ
DECISION IS THAT PORTION OF THE
STATUTE CRIMINAL SEXUAL CONDUCT IN THE 1ST°
ONLY REFERENCE REFERENCE SEXUAL PENETRATION
THAT SPECIFICALLY INDICATE THAT INCLUDED IN THAT WOULD BE BETTER TO BEAR GENITAL CONTACT IF THE VICTIM IS
UNDER 13. SO IT IS I BELIEVE
REPRESENTATIVE MOLLER
BILL TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S A REVIEW OF
THE STATUTE TO FIX ANY OF
THOSE ISSUES AS IT RELATES TO WHETHER
THE DEFINITION FOR THE CONDUCT
THAT'S ANALYZED [INAUDIBLE] AS
I SAY
IN THE [INAUDIBLE] THAT YOU BOTH SEXUAL PENETRATION OR BEAR TO BEAR GENITAL CAN'T
CONTACT IS ALSO COVERED.
SO THAT'S A CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE I KNOW THAT WAS A PROSECUTION BELIEVE IN RAMSEY COUNTY WHERE
THAT HAPPENS BUT WITH THE STATUTE BECAUSE
IT ONLY SAID SEXUAL PENETRATION FOR
THE PORTION THE CASE WAS PROSECUTED UNDER AND THE CONDUCT WAS BEAR GENITAL TO GENITAL
CONTACT [INAUDIBLE] FIX THAT LEGISLATION WILL BE EXTRAORDINARILY HELPFUL TO AVOID ANY FUTURE CIRCUMSTANCES SUCH AS THAT. AS I'VE INDICATED
I'VE HAD THE PRIVILEGE TO SPEAK WITH NUMEROUS CHILDREN WHO
HAVE A LEDGE OF AND VICTIMIZED
SEXUAL ASSAULT
IN THE LANGUAGE IN THE STATUTE THAT INHIBITS
AND MAKES CRIMINAL
SEXUAL ASSAULT IN THE 1ST° IS
SOMETHING THAT
THE GENERAL TWO TO GENITAL CONTACT IS SOMETHING WE DO WITH
A FAIRLY REGULAR BASIS IN A CHILD ABUSE CASES.
IN
HENNEPIN COUNTY AND COUNTIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE
OF MINNESOTA. MANY OF WHOM I GET TO WORK WITH
AS A CHILD ABUSE PROSECUTION SEXUAL
ASSAULT PROSECUTORS. AS A RELATES TO
ANOTHER EXAMPLE; OF A
CASE WHERE A REVIEW OF
THE LEGISLATION
TO TAKE MAYBE AMENDMENTS THAT WERE NOT
REPORTED TO NOT DO SO HE CONTEMPLATED AND
WORKING TOGETHER; IS THE SEXUAL
CONTACT STATUTE. SPECIFICALLY;
SEXUAL CONTACTTHE
SECTION DEGREE CRIMINAL SEXUAL
CONDUCT IN THE SECONDARY AND IN THE 4TH° WITH A PROHIBITION
IS AGAINST SEXUAL CONTACT. A CASE
EXAMPLE THAT
REPRESENTATIVE MOLLER AND I
SPOKE ABOUT THE EVENT OF EXPENSE WAS A CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE WE WERE PROSECUTING AN INDIVIDUAL WHO SEXUALLY ASSAULTED A WOMAN WHO IS NOT CONSCIOUS AT
THE TIME AND THE ALLEGATION OF SEXUAL
ASSAULT INVOLVED
HIS GENITALIA TO HER MOUTH AREA AND SHE WAS
NOT CONSCIOUS FOR THE SEXUAL ASSAULT. SHE DID NOT KNOW WHAT WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING AT THE TIME IT WAS HAPPENING.
BECAUSE THE CASE WAS ELISE INITIALLY
LARGELY CIRCUMSTANTIAL
WE DID CHARGE A CRIMINAL SEXUAL CONTACT IN THE 4TH°
BELIEVING THAT BECAUSE SHE WAS PHYSICALLY
HELPLESS THE DEFINITION OF
SEXUAL CONTACT CONTEMPLATED
THE PERPETRATORS INTIMATE
PARTS AGAINST THE COMPLAINANTS
NON-INTIMATE PART BUT WHAT WE FOUND IS THAT THE DEFINITION OF SEXUAL CONTACT; SUBDIVISION
11; 609341 HAS TWO SEPARATE DEFINITIONS OF SEXUAL CONTACT AND ONE OF THE DEFINITIONS DEFINITIONS BUT TO CERTAIN
PROVISIONS OF THE STATUTE IN
THE DEFINITION THAT WENT WITH
OUR
PARTICULAR CONTEXT DID NOT APPLY TO THE PHYSICALLY HOPELESS PROVISION. IT ONLY APPLY TO CERTAIN SUBDIVISIONS
NOT INCLUDED IN THE SET OF FACTS WE HAD. SO THAT WAS AN EXAMPLE
THAT IMMEDIATELY CAME TO MIND AS REPRESENTATIVE MOLLER
WAS TALK ABOUT THE POSSIBLE REVIEW OF SEXUAL ASSAULT STATUTE AND TRYING TO SEE WHAT IF ANY RECONCILIATION OF ANY AMENDMENTS OR CHANGES THAT HAPPEN OVER THE YEARS THAT
COULD IMPACT WITHOUT COULD
BE AFFECTED. THIS IS MY CLOSE EXAMPLE OF A
CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE THE STATUTE DID NOT PERMIT
US TO PROSECUTE THE INDIVIDUAL FOR SEXUAL CONDUCT BECAUSE THE DEFINITION OF
SEXUAL CONTACT WAS NOT APPLICABLE
TO HIS CONDUCT IF THE VICTIM WAS
PHYSICALLY HELPLESS. AT
THE TIME. SO W
E CERTAINLY WERE ABLE TO PROSECUTE THE INDIVIDUAL FOR
CRIMINAL SEXUAL CONDUCT IN THE
3RD°
AND [INAUDIBLE] SO WE WERE SUCCESSFUL IN OUR PERSECUTION BUT THAT CERTAINLY
WAS AN ISSUE THAT
PRESENTED ITSELF FOR CHARGES THAT
WE BELIEVED WOULD
BE APPLICABLE TO THAT PARTICULAR
CASE. SO I APPRECIATE VERY MUCH
THE OPPORTUNITY
TO COME AND JUST HIGHLIGHT A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES
OF CIRCUMSTANCES THAT AS
A PROSECUTOR
IS REDOING THESE CASES FOR SEVERAL YEARS;
I WELCOME A REVIEW OF THE SEXUAL
ASSAULT STATUTE AND RECONCILING
ANY ISSUES
OR DIFFERENCES IN DEFINITIONS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT IMPACT FUTURE PROSECUTIONS. >> CHAIR MARIANI: THANK
YOU. FOR HELPING
TO HIGHLIGHT SOME EXAMPLES OF WHY THE IMPORTANCE
OF THE
SEXUAL ASSAULT LAWS AS THEY APPLY TO THE BURDEN ON
OUR PROSECUTORS TO PURSUE
JUSTICE EQUITABLY [INAUDIBLE].
WE HAVE REPRESENTATIVE JOE MUELLER
FIVE MINUTES.
LET'S FIT IN AS MUCH TESTIMONY AS WE CAN THEN
WILL [INAUDIBLE] >>
REPRESENTATIVE MOLLER: SURE. AND IT TURNED OVER TO
LINDSAY BRYCE FROM MN-CASA?
WITH GREAT >> TESTIFIER: MR. CHAIR; MEMBERS; THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME AGAIN TODAY. THIS IS THE
SECOND TIME BECAUSE I WAS HERE YESTERDAY AS WELL. MY NAME IS
LINDSAY BRYCE AND
ON THE POLICY DIRECTOR AT THE MINNESOTA COALITION AGAINST SEXUAL ASSAULT.
I'M GOING TO SKIP RESTING EVERYBODY
HERE KNOWS WHAT MN-CASA IS GOOD ON
HIS COMPUTER. I'M HERE TO SPEAK
IN SUPPORT OF THIS BILL
AND [INAUDIBLE] AND YOURSELF MR. CHAIR FOR ADVANCING
THIS CONVERSATION. JUST BRIEFLY;
MN-CASA HAS
-- DOES A FAIRLY SUBSTANTIAL POLICY WORK WE'VE A
POLICY COMMITTEE
THAT [INAUDIBLE] CRIMINAL JUSTICE
PROFESSIONALS; VICTIM SURVIVORS
AND OTHERS. WE PRAY THAT COMMITTEE DOWN INTO
MULTIPLE SUBCOMMITTEES AND ARE
ACCESS TO JUSTICE
OF COMMITTEE HAS HISTORICALLY HAD
SUBSTANTIAL PROSECUTION INPUT
AND INVOLVEMENT. WE HAVE SPENT
[INAUDIBLE] SUBSTANTIAL TIME
[INAUDIBLE]
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