Kathy: Hi, YouTube, it's Kathy, and this is my friend Jenny. Jenny, tell the internet about yourself.
Jenny: Hi, I am MagicCatJenny on YouTube and pretty much everywhere
else on the Internet and my YouTube channel is about Booktube and more - many,
many, more things. [laughs] Kathy: Yeah, we're we're very similar in that we do
just all of the things - whatever we feel like doing on the YouTubes is what we do on the
YouTubes. So we're here today to talk about The Handmaid's Tale. We've both
read this kind of recently and we did so intentionally so we could do a
collaboration, which means over on Jenny's channel we have talked about
Slaughterhouse-Five, so go check out that video; links will be down in the
doobly-doo. We also decided that we're going to give ourselves a limited amount
of time to talk about the book, just so this isn't a kajillion years long as a
video because that could happen [Jenny: It could.] So I'm starting the 20 minute timer now and
it will annoy us in 20 minutes. Okay, so background - in case you're one of like
three people on Booktube that have never heard about this book. Handmaid's Tale is from
1985, written by Margaret Atwood who is Canadian, and it's a dystopian novel and
it was recently made into a TV show which I have not seen yet but heard is
very, very good. Oh, you're over here. Hi! [laughter]
Jenny: I have seen the show Kathy: Oh, good! Jenny: And actually- Kathy: Does it transfer well?
Jenny: Yes. I actually watched the show as it was being released on Hulu. So, I'd watch it
every week and I watched it before I read the book
which normally I don't like doing because that tends to make me less
interested in the book when I'm reading it because I already know everything
that's going on, but actually, it - I mean the book is really, really good and it
very - it it matches up really well. Like, it's a very, very close adaptation. There are
some major differences, but if you like the book, you you won't be disappointed
with the show at all. Kathy: So I'm assuming, like, the major differences were
definitely, like, the intentional differences just because we're in a different
medium as opposed to like, "we're just completely ignoring the plot of the book".
Jenny: Yeah, there were there were a few little things [Kathy: I'm cool with that] that were different.Llike, some
characters were a little bit different but nothing - nothing that would make you
"oh, why did they change that?" Like, the most - the major difference is just
the time in which it takes place. They made it take place in like this year.
Which actually made it even more frightening, I think. Kathy: Yeah, and I feel like
there has been quite a bit of discussion about this book and what's currently
happening in say America - so yeah. That was probably a very intentional update to timeline.
Jenny: Yeah. I recommend both but they're but they're intense.
Kathy: Good to know.
I will - I will try to track down the Hulu show at some point because it seems like
something I would watch. I'll put it on my very long "to watch" list. So yeah, set in this
dystopian world where basically infertility is a big issue and there are
people who work as handmaids, who are basically the reproducers of the society.
So if there is a couple that, they can't have babies - and they never blame it on
the man, I noticed this. They're like, "yeah it's never the man's fault if she can't
get pregnant; it's clearly the wife's fault so we'll get this handmaid and if
the man still can't reproduce with her it's still her fault that there's not child". Which[frustrated]
Jenny: Yeah, so, is this world - the way I read it was almost as if this was something
that was happening on, like, a large scale in the world, where, like, infertility was
becoming a bigger and bigger issue so the reasons the Handmaid's were chosen
is because they were still able, or they they had children recently, or were - or
maybe they ran some tests. I'm not sure exactly, but felt like -
Kathy: Yeah, they had some history of
having a child like our main character, I remember ,had a child and was like
separated from her child and her husband or common-law or whatever he was.
I can't remember. Um and was put to work as somebody to continue the
population but specifically for these like upper class of people.
Jenny: Yeah, so it was interesting to think of what if this sort of, you know, worldwide
problem, or however big it is, isn't just the women, it's it's the men too, so
there's nothing about, like, oh let's find the fertile men and have them be, you
know, like the - like that's really interesting and I think very purposeful
decision, is that there's not, like, also handmen who impregnate the women. Like,
that could help solve this problem or that could you know but no it's just the women.
Kathy: Yeah and that was just it was also just such a weird thing where
there were a bunch of people, like, "hey I will have sex with you, main character,
just in case the guy you were working for is shooting blanks;
you know, you got to make sure you get pregnant. He'll never know it's not his,"
and it's just like such a weird way to go about reproduction.
Jenny: Yeah, there was a scene in the book, I think she's going to go shopping and she walks past one of
the guards and she almost, like, purposefully, like, sways her hips because
she knows that there's - that they don't - like, these young men don't have
girlfriends. They don't see women that often. She knows like the effect she's
having. The way that that sexuality is sort of, almost, taken away from the
society entirely, except for, you know, of course in these sort of, I guess,
illegal clubs, where it's like - that is the point. But even, you know, I mean at
that time it was written, it was written about modern time, and the show is modern
time for us. Like how quickly, like, it seemed as if it went really quickly in
the world of the book. Like, they just burned all the fashion magazines, like,
everything's just - it's just gone. That's so scary to think, that, like, your entire
culture could just be like snuffed out because it's entirely possible. It's just so scary.
Kathy: Yeah it's - it's so strange, too, because
my biggest reference for this book before I read it was just after the US
election I went to see a vaudeville show with a troupe that I usually perform
with but I was too busy so I was just watching the show and they did a whole
take on it and they were just like "Margaret Atwood is a goddamn Nostradamus"
and then they basically did, like, a very quick rendition of what happened in the
book but like just to eerie, errie music, and I was like, yep,
yeah it's scary how much I could see this type of stuff happening if - if
things kept going down the rabbit hole. So that I think that is the scariest thing about it.
Um, what have they call it? Did they call it
the tradition or the ceremony - they're, like, once a month, sanctioned shag fest?
Jenny: Yeah, Ceremony. Kathy: -seemed like the least sexy thing of all time
because you have the wife [Jenny: yeah] holding on to the woman -the handmaid - who's, I'm pretty sure
mostly still clothed except for, like, underpants and then, like, the husband
doing his bit for fertility. Weirdest...[grossed out sounds] Yeah and it's somehow... I
appreciated that this was a society that was like "rape is not cool" - [but] it was just as
invasive, because it's not like she had a choice to not be a handmaid.
Jenny: Yeah, the line - the line of "is this rape, is it not?" it's a very blurred. Watching the show
and I do I do think it's a really great show and really great book but, but some
of those scenes were very difficult to watch. Just, just because of how real and
how great the actors were and all the- they filmed everything very, very close,
tight close-ups on people's faces and it's just those scenes were like my
least favorite. They're done well, but they were my least favorite to watch, because it's [grossed out]-
Kathy: Yeah I imagine they would be incredibly uncomfortable to watch because
it's such a weird world, because it's like, "oh we've gotten rid of rape"-
Jenny: But not you haven't, not really.
Kathy, Actually, no, like any
situation where you have to do this or else we're just gonna kill you is rape.
Jenny: Yeah one thing about the book that I thought was really interesting because
it wasn't in the show, so it was a bit of a surprise for me
reading, was the sort of epilogue that takes place in like years and years and
years in the future and like the whole the whole story was found on these audio tapes of Offred.
Kathy: Yeah which is an interesting take.
Jenny: Yeah, that does not happen in the- in the show, and that was interesting because a lot of the the
people who are talking about her tapes, like, questioning whether or not she was
lying, or how true some of it [was] and a lot of - a lot of the men characters in-
in that epilogue being like, "oh I don't know". It was just, even that part was so frustrating.
Kathy: Yeah, exactly [overlap] If somebody took the time to tell this story
in a way to try to get it out to the masses, shouldn't you just believe them?
Jenny: Yeah Kathy: Yeah, yes, I was also frustrated with that. And it was also just kind of a weird way,
like weird in a good way, a good way to end it, but also just like, you you didn't really know
what happened, because it has that - [Jenny: Yeah] kind of abrupt "she just stopped
recording tapes" ending, you don't know if she succeeded in getting away, or if
she was killed. Like, you just don't know.
Jenny: Definitely and that might change because
there is gonna be a second season [Kathy: Okay!] Yeah, but Margaret- Margaret Atwood is
very involved in the production and very involved in writing the next season so-
Kathy: Yeah and it's interesting that, like, taking something that is just, like, one
text and then putting it into, like, a TV format and then deciding that there's
going to be another season on top of it, even though there's not more written work to
go from is really interesting to me. The other, like, book to TV show
adaptation that's done that recently is Thirteen Reasons Why. They're going to be
continuing that one as a second season then, like, there's - there's nothing after
that point book wise, so like I'm interested to see what's going to happen. [Jenny: Right.]
Is it going to be a lot more of just dealing with the fallout of that
situation? Is it dealing with that and actually getting justice for it, or is it
just going to be incredibly frustrating? Like, yeah, so -
it'll be interesting to see what they do with the second season of this. It's good
that the original author is involved, because then you have some form of
integrity, although books belong to their readers, so there's that whole thing, but
I feel more comfortable with Margaret Atwood being a part of writing the
"second book," as it were, into a second season of the show.
Jenny: Yeah, I think - I think
definitely and this might be a topic for another video but books and their TV or
film adaptations and how that can change how you read a book or how you watch a
show, based on which one you've experienced first. Normally I find it
frustrating if I do the two too close to each other.
I couldn't get into the Game of Thrones books at all because I had seen the show
and I tried reading the first book and I just- I couldn't get into it, because it
moves so much slower than the show.
Kathy: It's interesting because I watched, I think,
the first season, and then I read all of the books, because - and that actually
helped me because while I was watching the TV show, I would have to stop it
every once in a while and be like, "okay which guy with a beard is this?" Cuz there were a lot of characters
and a lot of them look similar, [Jenny: yeah.] but because I had those actors in my head
while I was trying to read the book and it was so much easier. so like, I would
read the book,s and I would see those actors as those characters. So it's
interesting that we have two different takes on that. Yeah, I like that.
Jenny: Yeah, another experience with that I obviously read Harry Potter books before seeing
the films because they came out before but [laughter] obviously - but I remember I reread
all of the books before the final film and when I watched the final film, I
found myself frustrated and angry at it more than I've been angry at any of the
other films, and certainly some of those aren't as close to the books as, like, the
last ones are, but I just was criti[cal] - I was very intensely critical because I just
finished reading the last book
Kathy: Yeah I have a best friend who is a huge Potter fan and she can't do it too closer she gets very mad.
So I didn't actually read the Harry Potter books until 2013, um [laughs] but, like, my best friend's a
huge Harry Potter fan so she I had seen the first two movies and then she
complained so hard about them; I think they switched directors for the third
movie [Jenny: Yeah] that I just didn't see the rest of the movies, because she complained
about such a little change that I wouldn't have noticed because I didn't read the books.
Jenny: That's interesting Kathy: Yeah, it's it's just weird that I just never
got around to. it I mean I've read and seen all of it, so yeah, but it was like,
it was such an intensely popular thing, and when something is super intensely
popular, I don't want to read it right away. I'm just weird like that.
My little brother loved it. It got him into reading, but, like, I was already a
hardcore reader, so I didn't need that, like, push into "this makes kids read".
I'm like "I was reading before it was cool" [Jenny: Yeah.] Yeah I was that kid, so...
Jenny: Yeah, I wasn't super into those books right when they were popular, when the first books came
out and the sort of Harry Potter mania started happening, I wasn't like super
into it at that time either. I read the books and enjoyed them but I wasn't, like,
in the fandom till probably like college, when like I guess it was getting pretty,
you know, the movies kept coming out and all of that, but yeah, it's interesting.
The third movie had a different director but I actually think it's better.
Kathy: I think they also might have switched locations for like the Grand Hall or something -
something, like, I probably wouldn't even notice, really bother her so I just never ended up
seeing the film for like years, cuz she complained about it so much. Like I was
like, "I don't really care; I like, I see it- the draw, I see the draw. This is really
good storytelling, blah blah blah, but there's so many things to read!"
So in some ways it made it feel like this happened like immediately; uh, you did kind of see
a lead-up to this happening in her flashback scenes with her happy family.
You did see, like, things shutting down and then suddenly her not having access
to her bank account. Like, that was very close to, like, her being captured and
forced into this lifestyle, but you kind of saw it happening bit by bit.
And it's so interesting to see that again with the current political landscape - it's just, yes, terrifying.
Jenny: Yeah, actually I borrowed this book from my sister-in-law because at my
library it was like checked out with like over a hundred people on the
waiting list so {Kathy: Oh, yes!] so I borrowed it from her and I just wanted to show you-
it's really cute- little post-it and I dunno if you can see, it's this little llama
post-it note that just says "question authority." Kathy: Nice that is really cute. I approve.
Jenny: Yeah, she actually read it in school. [I found] question discussions. I was thinking I
think it's using this for our video but they're they're very specific there's a lot of them.
Kathy: Oh, yeah, just like the things that you would make a high schooler write and
essay about? [Jenny: Yeah.] Booktube just wants to talk about things in
general, maybe going to specifics, but not like, write a five paragraph essay on things.
Jenny: Yeah I really, I really enjoyed it. Again, is interesting considering I read it right after seeing the show.
Kathy: I felt it was weird in this in this book how many different types of classes women there
were and they were classed under like legitimate women / illegitimate women and
then, like, how they were basically making women police themselves [alarm goes off]
I guess that was our 20 minutes. I'm gonna finish that thought anyway,
how they were basically making women police themselves by having these different
class structures within being a woman, so like, you've had the wives, you had the
daughters, you have the handmaid's, but if you were a- if you were a person who
just wanted to have sex, you were a Jezebel [Jenny: Yeah.]- underclass type of person.
It was just so weird and it's -it's, yeah. It's a lot of what, like, girl on girl hate
is now currently, is just basically policing each other.
Jenny: Yeah, no... it felt as if it was almost sort of like the way some people might think of women and
judge them but making it very much like a part of the society. So, almost, like,
justifying those judgments and saying that they're okay because this is just
the way things are and not like oh...
Kathy: Yeah, like, "I'm just following the rules by telling you you can't do you want to do" and it's like think about
where these rules came from!
Jenny: One of those categories wasn't in the show,
which I noticed reading the book and that was the category of women that were
of a lesser, like, class status and they had - they had to do like all the
different jobs so they had multicolored outfits.
Kathy: Yeah, I think they were called a econowives.
Jenny: Yes! Econowives... uggg.
Kathy: Women who married relatively low ranking men but yeah are not part of the elite. So if you
have read the book, or if you've seen the TV show, let us know your thoughts down
in the comments below, and if you haven't already you should go over to Jenny's
Channel and subscribe and watch her video that we did together as well on
Slaughterhouse-Five. And just all of her videos, because this is how we became
friends - I just kept watching your videos, so yay.
Yeah, I mean look at that face! How could you not subscribe to
that face. If you'd like this type of collaboration video, please let me know
because if you guys are digging it, I definitely enjoy doing this with Jenny,
so we could do this in the future if it's something that other people and not just
us enjoy. So yeah let us know down below.
Jenny: Thanks for watching!
Kathy: [laughter] Yeah, exactly, basically. So, yeah be sure to like, share, comment, subscribe at will and we'll see
you later. Bye! [Jenny: Bye!]
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