close session please second
alright we have a second any discussion
all in favor of coming out of closed session show by right
hand; Opposed?
>> Based on our closed session I would like to make a motion that
we extend Dr Dunsmore's contract through June thirtieth
of twenty twenty-one
>> We have a motion to extend Dr Dunsmore's contract
through June thirtieth two twenty twenty-one
and a second is there any discussion
>> I would like to make a comment if I may
I really feel like
this is putting the board in a situation
being leveraged to make a decision
in a reactionary way based on the process of Dr
Dunsmore putting an application in another school system
as a result of that I feel that we would be premature
on voting on this; It's been suggested that we
possibly have a retreat and discuss expectataions for the future
our school system and then possibly vote on an extension
at a later time; I would feel more comfortable doing that
then almost being forced to make
a decision; He does still have two years on his contract
so I think we need to sit down and
discuss the future; I think he's done an excellent
job with working with the county
commissioners as far as building projects
at the same time we're being put in a situation
where we're being leveraged the to extend the contract
without ever sitting down, and talking to him about expectations
so that's all that I have.
>> I would also like to echo
the sentiments of Mr Pridgen; I think we
all would be a little bit more premature
I think it would be to our best benefit to wait to determine the
outcome of the superintendent's decision in Duval County
and once that has been firmed up it
would be more appropriate for us to come back and then discuss
any type of contract renewal.
>> All in favor of extending
Dr Dunsmore's contract to June thirtieth twenty twenty-one;
may I make a indication that that time frame was set
so it would end on June thirtieth
twenty twenty-one so we would stay in line with the contract.
All in favor indicate by raising your right hand.
Any oppsed?
Motion carries.
>> Id like to make a motion that
we adjourn the special called meeting.
>> Second.
>> All in favor?
Now we go into the budget work session.
>> Before Dr Lewis starts; we have presented
a lot of information to the county commissioners; They met Tuesday to
lay out their budget; as far as what the schools go,
they have approved four additional SROs for next year
they have also approved a half a percent increase
to the certified supplement across the entire district;
we have presented some information
that would look at the low performing or high poverty needs schools;
that was taken into account; they are still in the process
of weighing our safety and security requests;
The Governor is proposing a rather large
supplement for funding schools for safety
and security in schools that are waiting to see what's going to
come of that as well; I have some information on some
security initiatives
the other areas they're still under conversation with is
the paving; we have presented what we
needed, rolling that out over five year period
so they are still looking at that; right now they're looking
at an increase in the property taxes just shy of three percent;
the biggest issue with that was to address the funding
formula for the low wealth supplement;
they did approve to pay any shortfalls that the state
doesn't come up with in the low wealth supplement; this year
it's not quite the two million dollars that we lost last year;
the state has some funding they are putting into similar to last
year; they asked the county to split
that figure and I believe the state's putting in eight hundred
thousand dollars; The county is putting in eight hundred thousand dollars;
that's what has been discussed to this point , if there's
anything additional I spoke with Mr Honeycutt
yesterday that we're gonna be giving this board
an update today; if there's anything additional that we
would like to share or add to that, he and I are meeting Monday
to go over where they are and what they're doing;
the other piece of this, I did provide
city manager Scott Stevens our
formula we came up looking at the high poverty or low
performing schools, asking to be on the city agenda which I
have not been asked to present yet; I
did speak with the mayor yesterday
that the school system or the school buildings within the
city that they would fund a supplement increase for the
certified and classified staff at Goldsboro High School,
Dillard, North Drive, Carver Heights.
So we gave them the numbers for
a half percent increase as well as a full
percent increase; hopefully they're going to have that at the next
city council budget and I will be able to report back on that;
any questions or anything anybody would like to add?
>> I would like for you to start over
because I missed it all.
>> Three percent increase in taxes if
that happens that would put us in a position where we would be
losing two million dollars?
>> This year is done and if they
do that next year it will be for the fall
and they did adjust it some last year; that formula
is based on what a county's ability is to put funding in as opposed to the state;
so it takes into account property taxes, the
amount of revenue they generate taxes and sales tax so every
year that can readjust and reset;
if sales tax goes up that's that's where the biggest change
is going to be seen;
>> The way the state look sat that if the
county's tax rate is low enough it means that the county is wealthy enough
we're talking about low wealth
our lower taxes they actually
stepped in a snow hole.
Dr Dunsmore you sent us out this sheet
the local budget recommendations?
Now they did make arrangements for the low wealth money to be replaced
They're going to do it
or hold us harmless >> We're not going to
lose anything so when they went down and met with our state
elected officials because at issue is that
ADM number that would hold everybody harmless, they have agreed
that's going to be a discussion topic in this year's budget at
the state level but they agreed the state's gonna fund fifty
percent of the shortfall and the county agreed to make up the differnce.
>> And they're going to give half a percent to certified staff this year?
The plan is for five years but obviously they're only talking
about this year.
>> What I had done with that Mr Flowers was a wish list
is we've been talking about;
one of the things
we're working on at our last facilities meetings what's
our threshold, is a large capital outlay as opposed to a
small capital outlay; they only give us two million
dollars for small capital and I shared with Mr Honeycutt
developing that threshold and that
my hope is that every year we have if we have large capital outlay
projects that they would be on the commissioner's budget
agenda.
>> Now you you said that on the safety and security you asked for six hundred fifty thousand
dollars that they have not completely committed on that
but have not denied it.
>> He told me he felt very confidant we're going to get something
>> SO what Mr Sauls and his crew
mainly upgraded all of our cameras to digital high resolution cameras,
swipe cards for door entry and
access is probably not as hard fast as I would like because a lot of
our doors in our aging buildings; the whole framework
or the whole door would have to be replaced; we're going to have some companies to look at that
to replace so we're going to have to get a price on that.
Also I going to be handing out some information
that would have all of our buildings mapped
eletronically and computerized as an early warning system;
we're gonna do that out of our own funds
because I think this is a priority that we need to have done;
I'm encouraged from talking to Mr Honeycutt that we're gonna get some help for safety,
I just don't know that much >> It will not be part of the two million dollars?
>> No it'll be separate.
I has asked for it as a separate line
item so that we can track exactly what we put in and show we
use the money for what we asked >> In the high poverty schools
the city's gonna help us in that?
>> I have a formal request in and they have the numbers
>> Mister Henderson
>> I have a few questions about safety and security as well;
In Governor Cooper's budget isn't he allocating funds for
safety and security; would that actually come to us or would
that actually go to the county?
>> They're waiting to see; I don't know how that's going to be disseminated or obviously it
hasn't been voted on yet and that was part of the
discussion; he has asked how it was going to be spread out
and I don't know the answer until the house and senate
vote; I assume they're going to to put something similar in their budget;
>> And the SRO's are coming our of the commissioner's budget?
>> We have a contract for our SROs
with the county and they added four additional
positions that funded theough them;
>> if the state decides
that they are going to spend money and it is a line item
for SRO what happens to that?
Are we reimbursed for the county for the money that they already
put forward or would we be allowed to use that money
>> Actually the county SRO money, they put that money in and it flows through our budget
so its shown on our spreadsheets not the county's;
>> So the county gives us the money for the SROs?
>> I would go hat in hand and say "Look we have this extra money,
now may I use it for swipe cards and camera upgrades"
>> I know
there has been agreement on this half percent certified staff
supplement; I think that we as advocates
should be asking for more;
I think that we need to tell them that our teachers
deserve more than half percent knowing already that they have
agreed to a half of percent; we need to put a bargaining chip out there
so I would like to recommend
>> what the request was
for a five year period, we gave them the numbers
doing a half a percent each of those five years
which would be a two and half percent increase and we also put a
full percent in over a five year period which would be a
five percent increase; >> What is Johnston County's?
>> They're at thirteen and a half now and so they have a three
year; plan rolling out next year either a percent or a percent and a half
>> And they're how much now? >> Thirteen point five >> And we're at six?
>> Six and half, excuse me.
>> I think we need to be advocating more for our teachers;
>> The other thing we're looking into is we put the
restart tag on Goldsboro High School which gives us
funding flexibility so that's how
we're paying those stipends to Goldsboro High School
because we have money we would otherwise have to revert back
to the state to use for that; so we're looking in the option
maybe doing restarts for some of our low performing and high
poverty schools so we can put a similar structure in place on our own.
>> I don't know exactly what you submitted to them
on these line items like paving and thing like that, did
they specify anything on any of that?
>> Just the paving right now is still under discussion;
That was more or less a wish list I was trying to show him,
what's on the horizon, we've already
agreed to do the bleachers at Eastern Wayne;
>> I wanted to clarify it appears you asked the county for five
hundred thousand dollars contingency fund
on my suggestion was is that in
our budget process that we allocate a million and
a half dollars to projects we plan to accomplish and leave
five hundred in contingency because if you
budget the whole two million dollars and if
anything falls out of the area
something always falls out.
>> My goal was to get a five hundred thousand dollar increase
in our small capital outlay;
that's our back up plan; >> In our county method you know
I raise questions about how if we're doing that how we're
accounting for it and I still do what I like for us to get before
the board on more level keel so
when we go out and we say we're going to do a project in its
funded that that project is done and it's funded at some
time and things have falling off of that list that have been
promised and that's that's not the way it seems
like a good way to go forward;
>> I'll put a letter together to the county manager
and get to everybody here as a follow up
to this meeting here that you're asking that the teacher supplements
be considered a little higher
>> The other thing I would like to throw out to the board is
having served on the facilities committee the past year
we are seeing more and more big ticket items coem through the capital outlay;
I think it is time that we do a comprehensive approach
to our facility needs and begin lobby and advocate for some kind
of a bond issue within the next couple of years that help us
because we getting bids for six hundred thousand dollars for
roofs, that tears all of our small capital outlay
money out the window so we have got to progessively advocate
>> How long has it been two million dollars?
When I got on the board was two million dollars and that was
seven and a half years ago and look look at much the
price of things has increased in that amount of time
it's been two million dollars for fifteen years;
how much has a pick up truck gone up in the last fifteen years
>> but at the same time along with
even though everything is gone up our fund sources have gone down
>> If you heard me say in our
meetings at Southern Wayne, I'm more than happy to go down there and let them blame me
for asking for a bond referendum; >> And when they go in the newspaper and blame
a tax increase on the board of education
>> You see how they're positioning
everything right now as it relates to their
budget increase, their budget increases they want to throw
back saying it's all in the school system that they
have to do the increase so if they want to blame us
then they need to blame us for what we're really ask for
>> I mean the bottom line is as I see
it the schools have been underfunded
so we're having to catch up
and this board has really tried; On these small
projects like this and I'll use the bleachers at Eastern Wayne
this has always been a mystery
to me how and why we do it like this but I had a bid on that job
but it was like
a hundred forty three thousand dollars but the sales tax on
that is sixty seven hundred dollars; but the county could do
that and order that and be tax exempt
>> It's going to have to roll through
so if they approve that and the purchase goes through them
we're not tax exempt. >> We're not, so we have
to pay the sales tax
>> If it's a line item on theirs
could they do it and be tax exempt?
I've asked that question the whole time I've been on the board
Like paving contractors, the county's obviously
got paving to be done to it
>> They added a multi-year project last year
>> the question is could they do some of those projects
when they've done that in the past
[inaudible]
would we have to title the bleachers to the county
[crosstalk]
>> Sometimes the county
needs to show depending on their borrowing
situation they might need ownership but also the sales
tax or the refund of tax, as long as they own it or if they take a long term
lease works as well by the time the construction's done it's
re-deeded retitled back >> So the question is would we have to pay rent to the county
for bleachers sitting on school property >> usually one dollar a year or
something like that it is recognized in
everybody's interest but it has tied down that it's board of
education property means board of education control during that
whole time
[inaudible]
[inaudible]
>> in two thousand fifteen twenty eight
percent of our budget was contributed by the county
today fourteen point seven so you can see the
reductions that the county has made in giving
to us as a school system
>> Have they reduced what they're giving us or increased giving
to everybody else
>> It still has reduced us
no matter who they're giving it to
>> If you're saying it's a percentage
of what they're giving it doesn't necessarily mean they're reducing
what they're giving us
>> He said it went from
twenty eight to fourteen >> The only other thing
I will get a letter together; my suggestion is that
we can put something together that we do just a
referendum here within our board asking for that and we can make it an
official action;
>> I think that the board needs to
be made aware of with the the Southern Wayne project is
there's some issues out there and I would like
>> I was going to ask is that
on the agenda somewhere?
>> No I was in my room is it is just
but the consideration that we need to be aware of
that when they passed the referendum they allocated
the money at three point two million dollars
two million of that was to go the Southern Wayne gym project
and one point two to go towards the classrooms; what we are
experiencing from our discussions is that is going to
take them well in excess of two million dollars to do that
gymnasium so one of the things I would hope Dr Dunsmore and
this board would agree to is go ask the commissioners if they relieve us having
that one point two set aside for classrooms and allows us to
utilize that monies to go to our pot of money for the gym
>> we just have it together and I'll send it to the members electronically;
what we looked
at was the Aycock and Rosewood gym projects of two
thousand one; Aycock square footage is within
about a hundred square feet of what the proposal
was picked at Southern Wayne; the square foot cost when that
was built, we've put that cost of today
it's within a hundred dollars of what that gym would've cost
if we would build the Aycock gym today;
It's unblieveable how accurate those numbers are
that we have been providing.
>> Let me share something with you especially the facilities committee, I don't want to
be the bearer of bad news but there's a group in the United States; LMC, they're
a product buying group there are some fourteen hundred of them
they pretty much
control the price of a finished lumber product
we just got an email
they sent it to all their distributors, they're the ones distribute wood products
to the suppliers
that there is a "potential"
we've always had price increases
since gas prices started affecting everything in the building industry;
we've always had increases the eight percent-nine percent
twelve percent or whatever they sent a memo out that
effective June first the potential for wood products
increases for building supply houses are at
a hundred and nineteen percent across the board;
so in other words in any of these building projects we got
a two by four that costs two dollars today will cost five dollars
they they say the potential and their potential has always been
reality hopefully it's not will be a hundred nineteen percent because
as it should be against the law and if
that happens even though twenty five percent increase will
affect what we're doing but anything greater than
what it normally is we'll have to go back to the drawing board
for some of these projects that we've already got establishe
and bid out because the material cost is going to go through the roof;
>> dr Dunsmore were you just saying that for us to build
the gym at Southern Wayne
we could do it for basically the same cost as the Aycock gym?
>> What was brought up at that meeting was the Aycock and Rosewood
projects were approved and there wasn't attachments of classrooms
and so what we did was took the actual square footage cost of
everything to build those gyms and put today's numbers and
we were within a hundred dollars of what their estimating if we were going out to bid
on the Southern Wayne gym;
>> I know they got a whole lot better deal on them
becuase they built them at the same time;
>> last thing that I shared for the board is something to
look at and consider, I would like to put it on the agenda for the regular board
meeting; for safety and security purposes this firm, they are
the leader right now; they're doing a lot of work in
North Carolina; they come in and they
digitally map every square inch of our
buildingd with the exception of closets or places they can't get
the cameras in and they put all that on a CAD program
we would save in-house
above and beyond that the first year the outlay is a
ninety six thousand dollars to do all that work and then each
year to maintain and update the call system that's with that
so if I'm a teacher in a room and there's a fight or a student
passes out, I can hit my emergency button and it will light up;
the sheriff, the Goldsboro PD, the Fire and EMT,
everybody would have access to that;
We have knock boxes at the buildings that fire and
safety have keys to but that knock box could be for out of
district hours on one side of the building, could be a fire on
the other side or something where we have EMT
coming rather than going to the front office waiting to be
escorted they can go directly to that area;
it's one of those things were seconds count;
right now whether this is something since we don't have
blueprints for all of our buildings particularly the older ones;
It's my recommendation is we go ahead and get started with,
get that in place for the opening of the school year;
it would include panic butons for all staff, it's all on
cellular data driven so it's not tied into anything; it would
tied into all our alarm systems; it includes
all calls; it is a pretty impressive system; once we
have swipe cards if a student
or some other issue you can activate and open a locked door
specifically for the EMTs and go right to the scene
with our open campuses and all our open buildings;
there was a case last year in New Hanover County, they have hard wired panic buttons
in all their classrooms;
there was a fight, the panic button was at the teacher's desk and she was
on the other side of the room and she couldn't get to the panic
button and folks got hurt as a result
where this would be where the panic button is with the person;
so this is just something for you all to review;
we've resched out to some of the other companies for cost analysis
so we have some comparisons >> But my question is
this is obviously a security piece so how will it be funded?
>> This would come out of that two million dollars
or we would use our fund balance
>> that's the kind of discussion and I never felt
like that myself or the board had clarity on, there's no contingency fund in the fund balance
so since there's no contingency fund the ninety-six thousand
dollars and everything has been allocated already
so there's never been any clarity
about what was really going on with that fund
and that's what I would like to see
we can't spend ninety six
thousand dollars when it is already allocated to a project
without something not getting done;
>> every year we have and stuff that's been
allocated getting knocked off to the
next year with that cause us
this year; my other question is
have we got any bids from other companies;
Have we looked at what some of the other
>> I reached out and asked for comparisons
>> Did you receieve any?
>> In response to your question is that one of the things that we have all
the facilities committee has constantly been asking for is a
prioritization of how we spend our small capital
outlay fund money and also included in that would be
something was on the list this year and it did not
get funded; Where would it fall
as far as priorities concerned next year;
so that the schools could eventually
realize that whatever they have requested at some point they will
get it but from the way things have happened in the past
they get thrown away;
>> Dr Dunsmore I'm looking at the things Mr Hayes gave us
for the two million dollar appropriation; the first
two numbers are seventy and twenty five thousand that's
ninety five thousand dollars so if this is something that we
approve it but then you know somebody needs to go tell CB Aycock
that we're not going to put an air conditioner in the shop and we're not
going to put a walkway up there if we're gonna do this security work right here;
or it needs to come out of fund balance
>> Those are the kinds of discussion as a facilities committee need to have
>> This is bookeeping 101 and I do bookeeping
so I've asked for this and asked for this and we
need to know what you didn't spend last year we need to act with
accounting that two million dollars in it doesn't need to
be every year just two million dollars to go there and
everything in the past disappear because I know you
didn't spend two million dollars out of that fund last year becuase it was
four hundred-fifty thousand dollars allocated the two projects for
the two weight rooms at Rosewood and Spring Creek;
now am I making myself clear?
I would like to see, I'm asking you here in front of other
board members did you give us a ledger showing what you spent
last year and now it's appropriated, what fell out of it
and that number to fell out of it needs to move forward into
this year not just come back here with two million dollars;
and every bit of it allocated; and there's a ninety six thousand dollar request for something else
falling out of the air and there's no where to put it;
>> I'll be more than happy to get that to you. >> Let me clarify something
The last meeting that we had they
did present us with an update that basically told us they had
two point seven million dollars available in seventeen-eighteen
they spent one point nine and it is projected that we would have
about seven thirty six thousand dollars that would be turned
over the fund balance thisi year is that accurate?
>> I worked on that and that would be projecting what would be
left based on the information we get it at that time;
>> How does it appear to be fleshing out now?
Have we done some more projects that we had
originally tallied in this proposal that would go to next
year?
>> I will need to update it; I dont know if the; the air
conditioning piece that had to cover those
gyms was actually included so I just need to look and see
what we are spending.
>> Does that money fall out of the fund balance or does it roll back into small caps?
>> We get the money from the county based on what we do; so
if we don't do a project we don't get the money
so it remains as a carry over, so they don't just give us two
million two point seven to spend we get those reimbursements
based upon what we do; present invoices
and they pay us back >> So when they pay us back
say we don't use all of the two million, is that balance added
to an additional two million for the next year or does it jjst
go in the pot and becomes a part of the two million the next year
>> No what they have to do is give us the million dollars
allotted for the current year then anything unspent is carried over
>> Carry over to them or to us?
>> That' show we put the roof on Spring Creek and Wayne Academy
buildings carried over monies from three years ago;
When I came here there was a large carryover
>> but if there's a carryover money then why are we not doing
all the projects that we're supposed to be doing?
>> Well sometimes they are emergencies and that money
would need to flow in what we have carried over
so the situation is similar to
that >> Mr Hayes and Dr Dunsmore in
no kind of way am I trying to hamstring you
in this whole process that's I have suggested
that of the two million dollars, five hundred thousand dollars
go into contingency; we got five hundred thousand dollar in
contingency and where a ninety six thousand dollar project
comes up like the superintendent is presenting today
we have to account for that okay
and if we go over to five
hundred thousand dollars in contingency then it needs
to come out of our fund balance and it needs to be made
clear to the board of education that in order to fund
a project it's having to come out of fund balance
but I could see how it would be real easy for the board of
education to allocate and fund a project that they
felt worthy but the administration feel
they want to do a different project
so you just don't do one so you can do the other;
I'm trying to get some clarity as a board member about the
two million dollars and what we do with it every year
and the roll over and just bookeeping 101 and I'm
asking to give us >> as I said I will have that
information either at the facilities meeting
>> The facilitites meeting will be wonderful
>> Mr Flowers I have been on the facilities committee before
the way I see it not being on the facilities committee and I don't know
what the process is now but I know at one time
principals were asked to give me your top five priorities
a wish list then that goes into
many cases this list here
but then if oyu do enough projects and you
pull it off, we have some principals that have requested the same things for three years
we get to the point where well I requested this for three years
and other principals and getting everything on their wish list
>> That's definitely how we feel in the southern end of the
county >> I thought it was
discussed at one time that we were gonna look
into establishing a procedure so that if you have
an item on the list and you didn't get to it the year that it was
placed there that the second year it would carry weight
>> We have asked for that information and
we've done that twice in facilities committee and we have not yet
received that information; >> so who does that information come from?
>> Dr Dunsmore
>> I guess it would come from Dr Dunsmore and finance; they have to set a priority
system so that if those jobs that
you don't get done this year and they are the same things that
the principals will ask for next year they carry weight so that
sooner or later you're gonna get to those
>> that's why we're trying to put in a system
in place that would guarantee that if the request does not go
unheard >> Does that have to come
from the superintendent
Can't the facilities committee sit down with the finance officer and come up with that plan?
Dr Dunsmore can be in there, I'm not takingany responsibility from you
>> It should be a committee action
what we have relied on is the leadership team
to bring us the recommendation that we as a
facilities committee look at those recommendations and then we
bless them or say no this is what we think and send it back to
them before it come to the full board
>> I had an imprompto meeting the other day
and happen to catch Mr Sauls and Dr Harrell and we talked
and the principals do get their wish list
and I urged Dr Harrell and the administration
to consider a wish list
but the administration needs to go out to the individual schools
and see where the real needs are
you have a wish and you got a real need
and those things that are real needs are like
a category of how
we actually do them like a safety issue which will rise
to the top and things like that
but I think all this starts Mr Hayes with a more clear accounting
so when the board decides that
they are about to fund and approve a project that the
board can feel confident that project is going to be
completed;
>> did we discuss the wish list that the teachers; we have
already gone and discussed that in finance Mr Hayes do you
remember because we said that some of the lists and some of the items
that we were getting from some of the principals
maybe we need to go out to the buildings and walk through
as to whether it's a need or a want we've already discussed that so
we were hoping that we get out next list from the principals with some
input from the administration it won't come in
with such a large number of things that
they are relevant and actual needs
>> okay at this time can we move to the local budget?
>> One last thing
before we're asked to vote on this ninety-six thousand
dollars I like to have a clear detail
about how it's going to be paid
>> Before we go to Dr Lewis we're going to go over where we are in student
numbers that he had passed out
I haven't had a chance to thank th eboard for the extension
of my contract thank you very much
>> I gave each of you a hard copy
of the same document posted in board docs
earlier this spring the board voted to try to assist
elementary schools that are on the low performing schools list by going
ahead and staffing them with the reduced class size
phased in by the state of the next four years anyway
there was some discussion at a board meeting
after that about what the impact would be from a cost
perspective; we know the for example these additional
teachers would have to come really from one of two things;
we would either have to raise class sizes in the upper grades
to free up teachers to go help out in what you've approved or
we would have to have some other funding source like fund balance
or something to pay the additional salaries that would
come with these extra positions; after the discussion but
the board asked that we come back say what
are our options?
Several members said if you feel you can't do all of it at these five schools what can we do
so what I'm trying to prepare for
you today is sort of what it might look like if we tried to
phase in the assistants for the low performing elementary
schools; what would happen if we try to stay one
year ahead of what the state is doing; what would be to stay
two years ahead of what the state is doing and finally
the last chart is what it would take to go in and be three
years ahead of the state which is what the board already voted to do
and what we will do unless any further action taken;
so the short version is that you know you really have
four options here; one of course is to back off and say
we're just going to phase in at the low performing
elementary school the same way we're going to phase in at every other
elementary school; that's table number one and that would not
require any teachers more than what the state is already
providing us; if the board wanted to say well let's try to get a
year ahead of that formula let's go ahead and reduce by
one year's worth of class size reduction at the five low performing
schools then I am projected that that would require nine
additional teachers in addition to what the state will give us
if we try to stay two years ahead of the state per
class size reduction, we can do that with twelve additional
teachers and then finally to do what you have already voted for
us to do; we're still on that twenty three teenagers that
was discussed back in March so I bring that
to you for informational purposes only because we have
been asked and said look we don't feel like we can do all
of this what can we do; here's some sort of step by
step aof what we can do >> If I could jump in here
because we've been getting the planning allotments from the
state for this
and I have to give Mr Hayes credit for this the state is rolling out funding for this over four
years; next year was a hold harmless so we're getting one
quarter of the money primarily for specials; art, music those
types of teachers to start funding them
Mr Hayes I'm sure most of your colleagues and I can assure you
all superintendents were not planning on using that money
other than for other things; they weren't going to change
their class sizes next year so I think we could move
their four year plan up by a year and actually be in the
second year of this that basically costs us nothing;
that would put us a year in front of where we need to be
and essentially looking at
our planning allotments for the number of teachers we'll be
having the next year and we try to sit on some those and
reserve because we don't know moving forward where we're going to have to shift until
all the enrollments are done and I might add
with our moratorium on our transfers we're starting to see a
huge impact on that; a real example is gonna be at
Easten Wayne High School; I think their gonna be down about
hundred thirty five
which is gonna equate to about five teaching positions that
are probably gonna be pulled from Eastern Wayne so the students that are
rising ninth graders that were out of districts that are going to
be going back to their own schools
so I think with some of the shifting moving bforward we can
certainly lower class sizes and I think
the second year was by one; third year was by one the; four
year was by two and it would not cost us any
additional funds; >> So table two
actually be a zero instead of six hundred twelve thousand?
>> Yeah because when this was put together thatwas before planning
allotment >> These planning allotments are like in the last two weeks
and we just now started to hammer down what our
numbers are
>> We knew that when you gave
us the first information that Brogden Primary and Spring Creek
elementary did not have the classrooms and we know
that we cannot build so is there anything that we
can do to enhance their situation
I know you said like Brogden Primary would require
three teachers; Spring Creek three; can we do something in
that building that would allow them to do that because I
haven't been to Spring Creek during the school day but I
can tell you that Brogden Primary is overcrowded
and the building needs to be torn down
and rebuilt but we won't get into that discussion right
now because kids are having to go through one and two
classrooms just to get to a bathroom but on top
of that it is still overcrowded
>> At Brogden Primary School when we were first researching
this and I talked with the principal there at the time we thought
it would take six additional spaces and she
listed the art room the music room perhaps
converting a computer lab into a classroom so if that
number became three instead of six well then you know that
she would not have to do all that she was afraid she might
have to do; still give us something >> Did she have to
give up art and music because I don't want to go through another
year, I hope everybody agrees with me with concerns both
art and music.
>> I would leave that to the principal to decide
how best position her building.
>> She doesn't want to do that; >> I don't think any of us want her to do that either; the other
option that you have is what we have used for a lot of the year
at Tommy's Road and that's co-teaching; Whether that's good or bad
I don't know , I have not done it so
what I hear is it's an
awful lot of children in the one room.
>> Well can you find out what she can do so that because that is a part of
the puzzle; we need to know what space they're going to use because that
will let us know what calls we're gonna get and what concerns are going
to be out there and you know some of them might be
legitimate concerns but they might not overweigh our
reducing those class sizes.
>> I'll continue to use Brogden Primary as an example; if she were to say to
convert two existing computer labs into
traditional classrooms well then the district what I would
assume bear the expense of providing her mobile computer labs that
could be wheeled room to room; would it help out from the
facility standpoint yes but we need to be ready to bear the
cost of two computer carts.
>>And we need to know that that that is a part of the total cost.
>> So that's a consideration absolutely; the other thing that I would so sort of a disclaimer what
I'm giving you the wild or in terms of the number of
classrooms is kindergarten enrollment but we have had kindergarten
pre registration and those numbers were relatively strong
but parents are not required to pre-register and so for example
this past year of the teachers we had to shift around or
change a lot of what we have to do at
the beginning of the year this year was because our
kindergarten enrollment was larger than expected so what we try to do
is predict as best we can how many kindergartners we think
are coming to us based on what the past tells us we should
expect; could a little higher could be a little lower so so what
you're seeing there, the numbers of about twelve twenty three
could end up being seven ten and twenty one or the other
eleven fifteen and twenty-five it just depends on the kindergarteners
as they come in; the rest of it first,
second, and third grade we're doing pretty well;
the reason I bring this up today is is it is the time of
the year where our principals expect us to send them their
initial teacher allotments; board action as it was taken in February
requires us to do the twenty three okay and so in the
absence of any further action we will send out their
allotment as if we are going full forward
as teh board has instructed us to do and we will need a
decision about how to fund the additional positions whether we
want to do that through fund balance or whether we want to do that through
increased class sizes in grades four through eight;
right now this current school year our average class
size district wide in four through eeight is twenty six students;
we would need to move that to an average of twenty eight
students in order to absorb the additional positions without
taking money from anywhere else; >> SO what woudl you do
at level two?
>> I think what Dr Dunsmore said earlier
about perhaps having some positions that are being given
to us through this preliminary allotment we might
still be able to allot at twenty-six there;
twenty six four through eight, leave it alone
>> So there's additional allotments
for the four year rollout to take over art, music and PE;
they're giving us one quarter of that number so
we're just going to use that and go ahead and start lowering
class sizes in these schools and then as the funding catches up
the next three years it's not going to cost us
>> At a work session I'm not sure you're
allowed to take any action today then you might not be prepared to,
the next board meeting is May 29 and we typically send
out the initial allotments to the principals the last week in May
so I suppose what I need to do unless I hear otherwise from
the group between now and then is hold off on additional
allotments until after the May board meeting
bring it up again get clarification on which way you want to go
and I'll be ready to roll either away so that they
can go out and they expect.
>> And when you do that I would like
to as best you can that you have we that we know what the
teachers might lose that might not be in your report that it
might be something you give us in terms of a school
what rooms [crosstalk]
if we do level two that the
impact four through eight; >> I
don't think if we did table two I dont think there would be any impact on four through eight;
>> Is anyone
looking at level three; I went to level two
because to me we wouldn't have to spend any of our money
It will not cover level three
>> I think that what we will probably be able to get by with there is
that instead of a district average four through eight of twenty six we
could probably go twenty-seven on level three
>> You don't want to overcrowd four through eight
>> When we were having that discussion
when Dr Dunsmore presented this at the March board meeting
I think the question that came out was if you're
saying that you don't think we can that this what can we do;
and I think that's what we've tried to prvide here
>> And I appreciate that.
>> Let me ask you a questions because there was some talk that the legislature
may go further in grades four five
six that that might be the next
deal on the table if that's correct
and they allow four years to implement K-3
will we have some overlay will we be doing four five and six two years from now
Has there been any?
>> I have not read anything but I think that we are getting a little
bit of a hint at what they might be looking
at but I
believe that the enhancement teacher ratio they're going to
use is for grades K through five not K through three;
the way I read that is they're they're going to understand why
I'm giving sample at all at six grade they're going to allot us
teachers at a ratio of one teacher for every 24 kids;
we're gonna allot out at twenty six because they
know we still don't get funding for enhancement at the middle
grades; right now we barely get a little bit for
upper elementary so in the absence of them changing their
formulas for how they fund enhancement teachers if they
don't take that beyond K-5 I think it's reasonable to
think that figure we can continue to do
what we can to get our enhancement teachers in the upper grades;
so a signal might be if they start talking about
providing additional funding for enhancement teachers
beyond grade five then I think we start to read between the
lines and say okay they're going to expect lower class
sizes at middle school as well.
>> In discussions of my level I think they're waiting to see what we do these first year or two
before they start making changes and I think if we're
showing fidelity with what we're doing at least Wayne County
it taking that money and taking the steps to get out in front of it;
[inaduible]
That's what I said if we try to implement somethin all along
so when we get to that point here
we will be ahead of the ballgame
plus we have an opportunity
to have higher test scores and everything else
>> thank you very much Mr Lewis
right now we ready to move
forward with the security contract district wide
>> That's what I had already talked about
>> are there any comments
>> Mr Lewis thank you for putting that information together
it was very informative
>> do we have a motion for
adjournment?
>> Madam chair this may or may not be the time to bring this up but
Dr Lewis asked earlier in the week to get some
numbers together on our current enrollment and current capacity
and Dr Lewis looking at your projected numbers it
shows a shortfall in the whole system, elementary
schools; that we're short six hundred and ten elementary
classrooms as we speak; I'm looking at the projected
for twenty-eighteen nineteen
>> In a little introductory
paragraph as I'm trying >> Enrollment, students not classrooms
>> remember what I started doing because we know
class
size reduction is coming I have started using elementary future
capacity in the work that I'm doing for the student assignment committee
then if we're talking about potentially moving lines or changing
feeder patterns or whatever it is we're going to need to do
I am projecting out now using the capacity that that elementary
schools will be able to hold when the class sizes are fully
implemented so that we can kind of future prove whatever we do
a little bit so yes by those standards
we're going to show an elementary capacity at one
hundred eight percent next year assuming that
the kindergarten comes in about like it normally does
>> so we're gonna be short six
hundred and ten seats for students; the current
numbers as of October this school year dash
we were five hundred sixty
seats short; so I've heard conversation
of course teh board has never made a decision on this
converting Wayne Academy into a middle school
using the same formula to project the middle school is
that with the classes that we have we will have a
surplus of seventy six seats is what we currently have;
so having said that the need is in elementary
classroom space plus the fact that
we're gonna to have more classrooms to meet the standards
so in our long range plan Dr Dunsmore
Wayne Academy perhaps the former Edgewood
I don't know if that facility will come up to standards for
an elementary school; we need elementary seating;
now I know they've been conversation about building a
new elementary school
but we don't have that currently but we do have
Wayne Academy; I think it was originally built to be a middle
school; I don't know how much
has got to be done, if we make it a middle school
you need to pull down in a planning
if and when we do make it a middle school
you need to pull down from other schools some kind of way
to give us elementay seating space; and I don't know if you can do
that; the simple thing
to do in a simplistic world would be
make Wayne Academy elementary space
logistically I don't know how that would work out
>> I don't think it would work at all because all of our needs
are being shown in the southeastern part of the county
>> I'm just throwing these numbers out there I'm not saying
I have an answer I'm just saying as I see it
we're focussing on make Wayne Academy a middle school and we
need elementary space so of course
Meadowlane
Will come online but these numbers are reflecting Meadowlane.
>> This number does not reflect the new capacity at Meadowlane
because it's not available space yet.
>> Your projected numbers don't?
>> No sir. >> Like I said it's
obviously a moving target and Meadowlane's not gonna give
six hundred and ten seats.
>> Well I have done it both ways I'll say that
the additional seats we're gonna have at Meadowlane
instead of being a hundred and eight percent capacity
we would be at a hundred six but still well over the additional
seats of a hundred fifty or so extra seats that Meadowlane
is going to give us helps but doesn't solve it; the
projects that are on the books for expanding northwest and
potentially Fremont and there's been a lot of discussion
about Fremont on whether or not it could even be done might
help us by another one percent or two percent;
it depends on the approach we take with Northwest project;
originally that Northwest elementary school project was
supposed to replace mobile units and we treat it that way
then the capacity really doesn't go up any it just changes
from trailers to brick and mortar; if we use it truely
increase the capacity then that's a different story but
what I'm looking for the student assignment committee
projected out towards two thousand nineteen twenty I am
including that extra space in some of what I'm doing;
>> And the student assignment committee is Mr Smith,
Mr Henderson and Mr Pridgen
>> Well gentlemen I encourage you
>> I agree with is that we really need to begin to look at some
of our long range planning because I know this that I look back at
our facility needs survey in two
thousand fifteen sixteen and one of the things that I found very
interesting was that there was a proposal for a northern
Wayne school which I assume these mobile
units that would go over to Northeast
and Fremont is supposed to take the place of that new
school >> That was the idea.
>> That was on the original when they built to the two new middle schools
that was added on that; That was on the original plan that was cut;
>> BAck in fifteen sixteen the facility needs survey you're talking
about is done every five years by DPI so it was done with
the old class size requirements in mind since then up and so
that's changed how we're looking at elementary
space now; the original idea was to go ahead and build
another school in that area to take heat off of northwest
which could then take heat off of you could ship students
that that was
the idea but with new class mandates even
that wasn't going to be enough plus when we look at some of that long
range broke down and started meeting
with Chip Crupmler and his folks and saw that the bigger growth was
really in southeastern Wayne County; the perception was that
the most of it was in the northern end and while there is significant
growth projected in the northern end the bigger growth is expected
in the southeast bwtween Spring Creak and
Borgden area.
>> Which leads me to say that we really
need to be restudying these because it also in that plan
was calling for a new Rosewood Middle School
and I see much greater need for a new Mout Olive Middle School
than I do for a Rosewood Middle School.
>> And how do you come with the idea that we need middle schools space?
>> It was not additional space, it was replacement space for aging buildings.
I'm not sure when Mount Olive was built but Rosewood was built
in the twenties.
>> We visited them they're old and beat up
>> I want to say both of those project fell in years six through ten;
[crosstalk]
>>Brogden Primary school and other schools; >> Speaking about the northern end
in Northeast and Northwest
and Fremont Fremont has a current capacity of three
hundred and eight that's the capcity
Northeast is five fifty-nine and Northwest is and
I've always felt that there needs to be a balance up there
and Fremont some kind of way capacity that school needs to
be pushed up some by two hundred fifty three hundred
students and that would balance that area out pretty okay;
>> That was where the idea of expanding that school
by twelve classrooms or so; the problem you run into
at Fremont with a school that size
it's not a normal sized elementary
school, it's too small for what we're trying to use it for
>> And it's a small school a small campus
when we went to visit it had plenty of room
there; I mean they obviously had enough room; it was like night and day
there over Brogden Primary
>> okay let's put it on tape a second time
>> we've already started conversations with Mount Olive University in regard to that
middle school project so I'm encouraged there;
but I just want to go but there was another shooting
in Texas
disussion about Texas SChool shooting
>> Is there additional space after construction project
is there a plan to pull down on Spring Creek
might be on some kind of way as a spin off to give some
to Brogden Primary
>> That's one of the things I'm prepared
to take to student adisory is how how to best use
to pull from Spring Creek and Brogden Primary
the school I'm really watchin as kindergarten gets up
and running is North Drive because North Drive had an unusually
large number of kindergartners last year even when you factor
in who should have been going there because of their
residency all along even when you take all that had this
transfer stuff out play and compare apples to apples
last year's kindergarten class was huge I dont know if that was;
one of those things where every once in a while you have a big class
or was the beginnings of a trend if it's the beginning
of a trend than that may cause us to
rethink how we will use that space; We have a lot of decisions to make
>> We can do this thing but it's gonna be a journey
>> that's exactly right and then
that's one of the things I keep saying about total redictricting;
my concept of redistricting would take a while because you
got to do the little tweaks until we get the facilities up
that we actually need to do a total redictricting plan
>> motion to adjourn the second aspect
thank you in a discussion no
all in favor raise your right hand
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