>> HAS THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION OVERSTEPPED ITS
AUTHORITY IN WORKING WITH NEW MEXICO'S MOST TROUBLED
SCHOOLS?
THAT IS THE QUESTION THE BIPARTISAN LEGISLATIVE
EDUCATION STUDY COMMITTEE IS NOW ASKING.
AT ISSUE ARE FOUR ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS, THREE HERE IN
ALBUQUERQUE, THAT HAVE RECEIVED F GRADES FOR THE LAST
FIVE TO SIX YEARS.
DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION OFFICIALS SAY THEY HAVE THE
RIGHT TO INTERVENE IN THOSE SCHOOLS' OPERATIONS BASED ON
THE FEDERAL EVERY SCHOOL SUCCEEDS ACT PASSED BY
PRESIDENT OBAMA IN 2015 BUT THE LESC SAYS THE STATE
STATUTE IS NOT CLEAR ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE PED CAN
HAVE FINAL SAY ON ANY INTERVENTION PLANS.
MARY, AND THIS IS VERY INTERESTING BECAUSE VERY
SPECIFICALLY TO APS, A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH OVER THE PAST
COUPLE OF MONTHS ABOUT THESE THREE SCHOOLS.
EDUCATION DEPARTMENT TAKES A PRETTY HARD LINE.
MS.
REEDY, THE NEW APS SUPERINTENDENT, SAYING, LOOK,
WE ARE WORKING HERE, SUBMITTING THINGS ON TIME.
WHERE ARE WE NOW ON THIS ON YOUR READ?
ARE WE GOING TO HAVE RESOLUTION HERE?
>> I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE.
I THINK WHERE ARE WE NOW, WE HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS IN THE
AIR BECAUSE WE ARE COMING TO THE END OF THE MARTINEZ
ADMINISTRATION.
SO ESTABLISHING A PLAN, FOLLOWING IT THROUGH INTO THE
NEXT -- INTO 2019, THE CURRENT EDUCATION SECRETARY, I MEAN,
WHO KNOWS, BUT AT LEAST I WOULD EXPECT RIGHT NOW MAY NOT
BE AROUND DEPENDING ON THE NEXT ADMINISTRATION AND ALSO,
EVEN GETTING DOWN TO THE F GRADE, ISN'T THAT IN QUESTION
IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE?
WHO IS IN FAVOR OF THAT SORT OF GRADING SYSTEM OF THE
SCHOOLS.
TO ME A LOT OF QUESTIONS.
>> ONE OF THE BIG QUESTIONS IS WHO HAS FINAL SAY.
IS IT LOCAL SCHOOLS?
THERE IS A LOT OF ISSUES OUT THERE THAT SEEMS LIKE A BLOCK
TO PLAY WELL TOGETHER, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT.
>> IT STRIKES ME, FIRST OF ALL STRIKES ME AS SOMETHING THAT
PROBABLY REALLY DOES NEED TO BE CLARIFIED BY THE
LEGISLATURE AND BY THE TIME THAT HAPPENS, WE ARE GOING TO
HAVE A NEW ADMINISTRATION.
SO, WILL THERE BE AN ATTEMPT TO RUN OUT THE CLOCK, I
SUSPECT SO.
>> TOM, THE IDEA THAT THESE POWER STRUGGLES, KIDS LOSE AT
THE END OF THE DAY, SEEMS TO ME.
WE HAVE THREE FAILING SCHOOLS AND PED SAID, LOOK, WE CAN DO
A LOT OF THINGS HERE BUT THE FIRST THING I WANT TO TALK
ABOUT IS REPLACE THE PRINCIPAL.
I HAVE BEEN A ROUND A LOT OF EDUCATORS, THEY WILL TELL YOU
JUST REPLACING THE PERSON AT THE TOP OF IT, THAT DOESN'T
FIX A SCHOOL NECESSARILY.
WHERE ARE THEY COMING FROM ON THE PRINCIPAL THING, SEEMS
LIKE A NO WIN THERE.
>> IT IS A SCAPEGOAT IS WHAT IT IS.
YES, APS HAS REPLACED ALL THE PRINCIPALS.
THAT IS CHECKING A BOX.
THERE IS A LARGER COMMUNITY ISSUE THAT GOES BEYOND THE
PRINCIPAL.
THE PRINCIPAL IS A LEADER AND IT IS A SMALL BUSINESS, ABOUT
A THREE MILLION BUDGET, SO IT IS UP TO THEM TO KIND OF
CHANGE THE TONE BUT, YOU KNOW, TO SAY IT IS THE PRINCIPALS,
IT IS THE TEACHERS, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS SHOULD BE MOVED.
YOU HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT OPTIONS AVAILABLE BUT FOR SOME
REASON PRINCIPALS IS THE EASIEST ONE, BECAUSE IT IS THE
ONE PERSON THAT IS NOT PROTECTED BY THE UNION.
BUT NOT TO MAKE IT A UNION CONVERSATION, BUT TO YOUR
CONVERSATION EARLIER ABOUT WHO HAS FINAL SAY, I THINK PED HAS
THE HAMMER AND THEY ARE THE ONES WITH FINAL SAY, BECAUSE
THEY ARE THE ONES IN CHARGE.
NOW THAT COULD CHANGE AND PROBABLY WILL CHANGE MANY
MONTHS FROM NOW, BUT, THERE IS SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS ABOUT
THIS.
THESE ISSUES AT ALL SCHOOLS DID NOT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.
IT WASN'T LIKE ALL OF A SUDDEN DECEMBER IS LIKE, OH MY GOSH,
WE HAVE AN F GRADE OR WHATEVER THE MEASUREMENT STICK IS.
IT HAS -- IT IS NOT WORKING.
AND YOU JUST CAN'T -- >> FIVE OR SIX YEARS IS A LONG
TIME.
>> IT IS.
WHAT APS HAS TRIED ISN'T WORKING.
WHY NOT GIVE WHAT PED IS SUGGESTING A TRY.
WHAT APS HAS TRIED TO DO IN FIXING THE ISSUE HASN'T
WORKED.
>> HOW DO YOU READ THIS ZACK?
IN THIS TENSION BETWEEN PED AND APS, WHO HAS UPPER HAND
HERE?
>> JUST TO GO FROM TOM'S POINT HERE, YOU KNOW, PED DOES HAVE
THE HAMMER AND SPEAKING OF CHECKED BOXES, TEACHER
EVALUATIONS COMPLETELY UNFAIR IN THE STATE AND THE WAY WE
ARE TESTING TO STUDENTS AND HOLDING TEACHERS TO TESTING
STUDENTS IS UNFAIR, BUT THE MAIN POINT IS I THINK THE PED
HAS TO ABIDE BY FEDERAL LAW.
WE HAVE WHAT I BELIEVE IS CALLED EVERY STUDENT SUCCEED
ACT.
IT HAS CLEAR GUIDELINES, AND LEGISLATURE SHOULD REFERENCE
THIS AND BE ABLE TO BUILD IT OUT TO THE LEVEL IT NEEDS TO
BE INTERPRETED TO.
>> MARY, I WANT TO READ THE FOUR THINGS PED SAYS THEY HAVE
IN THERE TOOL BOX.
THEY CAN CLOSE A SCHOOL.
THEY CAN RESTART IT AS A CHARTER SCHOOL.
THEY CAN CHAMPION AND PROVIDE CHOICE AND RESTRUCTURE IN
DESIGN OR THE PRINCIPAL THING.
THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS THEY ARE GIVING WIGGLE ROOM FOR THE
SCHOOLS TO DO.
THEY ARE SAYING, WE CHOOSE TO DO REDESIGN AND RESTRUCTURE,
GIVE US SOME TIME.
YOU CAN'T TURN AROUND SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN
FAILING FIVE OR SIX YEARS IN A ROW.
IS THAT FAIR FOR MS.
REEDY TO LOOK FOR MORE TIME HERE?
>> I THINK IT IS EXPECTED THAT SHE WOULD TRY TO DO THAT
ESPECIALLY SOMETIMES THERE ARE MANY COMPLEX REASONS WHY A
SCHOOL MIGHT GET AN F GRADE.
BEYOND THE CLASSROOM.
SO, I THINK WHEN YOU START TO LOOK AT KIND OF MORE INTEGRAL
PROBLEMS OR SOCIAL ISSUES THAT ARE AT PLAY, THEN, YES, SHE IS
SOMEONE WHOSE POSITION IS CERTAINLY GOING TO WANT THAT
EXTRA TIME.
NOW WE ARE TALKING YEARS THAT IT HAS BEEN DEALING WITH LOW
SCORES.
>> AGAIN, SANTA FE AND COMPANY, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO
BE HERE BUT YOU CANNOT BLAME THEM FOR WANTING TO SEE
THROUGH WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH EDUCATION HERE.
SO I ASK AGAIN, WITH THE CLOCK RUNNING OUT, IS THERE TIME TO
COMPROMISE HERE ON THIS THING?
>> I THINK -- THIS IS CYNICAL BUT I THINK THAT GIVEN THE
CLOCK, IT MAY NOT BE -- MAYBE ONE OR MORE SIDES THINKS WE
DON'T HAVE TO, IF WE CAN KEEP THINGS MOVING ALONG, WE CAN
OBSTRUCT.
I DON'T MEAN TO SAY THAT I THINK APD -- APS, THANK YOU --
IS WRONG OR IS TAKING AN INCORRECT TACT, IT SEEMS TO
ME, THOUGH, THAT LOOKING AT THAT LIST, SOME OF THE
ELEMENTS ON THAT LIST, GOING TO A CHARTER SCHOOL, CLOSING
THE SCHOOL, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REARRANGING THE DECK
CHAIRS HERE.
THE ONLY ONE THAT STRIKES ME AS BEING PROACTIVE AS REALLY
INVOLVING AN ATTEMPT TO FIX EDUCATION WITHIN THAT
COMMUNITY AND THAT CENTER IS THE ONE THAT APS IS ATTEMPTING
TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF. AND, TO SAY IT HAS TO HAPPEN
LIKE THIS, I THINK, WHEN I READ THAT AS SIMPLISTIC, BUT I
THINK IT IS TOO FAST.
IT IS EXPECTED BUT I ALSO THINK, YEAH, IT IS EXPECTED.
IT SHOULD TAKE A LITTLE TIME.
>> TOM, YOU MENTIONED WE WERE TALKING EARLIER, LOS PADILLAS
AND WHITTIER, TWO OF THE SCHOOLS I MENTIONED.
INTERESTING NOTE I THOUGHT WAS INTERESTING, PED PREVIOUSLY
REQUIRED THAT WHITTIER AND LOS PADILLAS BE RATED HIGHLY
EFFECTIVE OR EXEMPLARY.
THEY BACKED OFF OF THAT WHEN THEY REALIZED THAT IS NOT
GOING TO SOLVE IT.
WASN'T THAT THE BIG THING IN THE EDUCATION THING ALL ALONG,
TEACHERS WEREN'T DESIGNATED AT EXEMPLARY OR BETTER,
EVERYTHING WAS GOING TO TURN AROUND BUT IT DIDN'T.
WHERE DOES IT PUT THIS IDEA ABOUT EDUCATION REFORM AND HOW
THEY DO THIS WHOLE THING.
>> IT PLACES THE FOLKS ON EDUCATION REFORM AS NOT JUST
ABOUT TEACHERS AND PRINCIPALS BUT ABOUT THE COMMUNITY AND
HOW COMMUNITIES RESPOND TO HELPING, YOU KNOW, THE SCHOOLS
BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY THE STUDENTS SUCCEED.
YOU KNOW, WHAT I ENJOY ABOUT ALBUQUERQUE IS THAT YOU HAVE
ALL THESE UNIQUE COMMUNITIES THAT YOU JUST CAN'T GO IN WITH
A READY MADE SOLUTION.
THE READING PROGRAMS AT DESERT RIDGE WORK, SO, THEREFORE THEY
WORK AT POLK AND YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES AND I THINK THERE
HAS TO BE SOME FLEXIBILITY AND I THINK THAT IS ONE OF THE
LACK OF FLEXIBILITY IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT PED HAS BEEN
CRITICIZED ON, BUT AT THE SAME POINT IN TIME YOU HAVE TO HAVE
A STANDARD THAT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO GET ANGRY WITH BUT
YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO MEASURE EVERYBODY BY.
>> GOOD POINT.
CURIOUS WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS AS WELL, THE IDEA THAT
EVALUATING TEACHERS YOU NEED MORE THAN JUST TEST SCORES, WE
HAD THIS ARGUMENT HERE FOR A LONG TIME.
WE HAVE PEOPLE RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR ON BOTH SIDES OF THE
AISLE, I MIGHT ADD, SAYING TEACHER EVALUATIONS MAY NOT BE
THE BEST WAY TO GO.
DO YOU SEE THIS AS A CRACK HERE?
IS SOMETHING CHANGING IN THE DIALOGUE OF EDUCATION HERE
WITH THIS LITTLE DUST UP WE HAVE GOING?
>> IT SEEMS LIKE IT IS SHIFTING A LITTLE BIT BUT I
AGREE WITH WHAT TOM IS SAYING, THERE IS CULTURAL DYNAMICS NOT
FACTORED INTO PED.
SCHOOL DISTRICT IS DIFFERENT.
I WAS RAISED IN LAS CRUCES AND THE SCHOOL DISTRICT HERE IS A
DIFFERENT UNIVERSE.
I THINK THE KELLER ADMINISTRATION MIGHT BE
INTERESTED IN WORKING CLOSELY WITH PED AND WORK WITH
COMMUNITY LEADERS AND ADDRESS SOME OF THE SYSTEMIC ISSUES
WHICH DRIVES SOME OF THE SCHOOLS' FAILURE.
IT COMES DOWN TO THE MODEL AND THE SYSTEMS.
IF YOU TRY TO SUBSCRIBE TO A FAILING MODEL AND YOU'RE
WONDERING WHY NOBODY CAN MEET IT, IT IS KIND OF WEIRD BUT IT
IS CHANGING THE POLITICAL DISCOURSE AND IT IS SURPRISING
TO -- >> ARE YOU SURPRISED ONE OF
THE IDEAS IS TO TURN IT INTO A CHARTER SCHOOL?
>> YES.
>> DOES THAT HELP ANYTHING IN THIS WORLD.
>> IN NO WAY DOES IT HELP.
>> I AM NOT SURPRISED ONLY I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT
MARTINEZ ADMINISTRATION ADVOCATES.
>> A LOT OF FOLKS ARE SAYING IT IS A BIT OF A TROJAN HORSE.
THEY WANT TO HAVE THEM FLIP INTO CHARTER SCHOOLS AND THIS
IS A WAY TO DO IT.
>> IT IS NOT THE MAGIC, TA DA, IT'S A CHARTER SCHOOL, NOW IT
WILL SUCCEED.
IT IS ASKING FOR A DIFFERENT, ADDITIONAL SET PROBLEMS.
>> THERE ARE INDEPENDENT CHARTER SCHOOLS AND APS
CHARTER SCHOOLS AND IT JUST PROVIDES MORE LATITUDE TO MAKE
DIFFERENCES OR CHANGES THAT THE DISTRICT OR THE PRINCIPAL
WANTS TO MAKE.
>> WE MUST APOLOGIZE TO PED FOR CALLING THEM APS AND VICE
VERSA.
I DO IT ALL THE TIME.
THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.
YOU DID A GREAT JOB GUYS.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
IF YOU WANT TO SHARE YOUR REACTION TO THIS WEEK'S TOPICS
GET IN TOUCH WITH US HERE AT NEWMEXICOINFOCUS.ORG.
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